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[sjh1]

Judging from the numerous (and some slightly hostile) responses to my posts on the spelling 'craic' there is some interest in the subject, so I've decided to set out a few arguments here. Also Aragorn mentioned "bizarro handwringing over semantics" in the Rewilding thread which has set me off again!

'Crack' meaning good chat, jokes, banter etc. is an old northern English and lowland Scots word dating from the 1700s at least. It is not an Irish Gaelic word. It was always spelled 'crack' up until the late 1960s. Until that time in Ireland it was mostly (or only?) heard in Ulster, probably symptomatic of our close historical dialect links with Scotland. Here too it was always spelled 'crack'.

In the latter half of the 20th century use of the word spread into the south of Ireland where in Irish language contexts it began to be spelled 'craic'. Perfectly acceptable. However from the 1990s the spelling 'craic' started to creep into English writing and by the 2010s it seems to have totally displaced the original spelling. My point is that there is no need to spell the word 'craic' when writing in English.

More details in the history section of this well sourced wikipedia article ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craic

'A Concise Ulster Dictionary' (a great resource, available here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Concise-Ulster-Dictionary-Caroline-Macafee/dp/0198600593) published in 1996 states,

crack noun 1 talk, gossip, chat; a conversation, a chat; a good story or joke. 2 the crack news, gossip. 3 good, etc crack of a person good etc. company ... [Also borrowed into Irish as craic].

Interestingly modern Ulster-Scots writers often spell it 'crek' (source: James Fenton 'The Hamely Tongue') using a phonetic spelling based largely on north Antrim pronunciation. However there is no need for either the 'crek' or 'craic' spellings when writing in English.

This thread has more discussion and details, http://wordoriginsorg.yuku.com/topic/4048#.UcWItfnVCSo

I empathise with one of the posters who states, "I am absolutely delighted to hear this, craic looks like an Irish spelling, but it does not exist in the actual language.
I have thought this for ages, but on the few occasions I have voiced my opnion (in Ireland) I have been laughed out of court."

Write it 'craic' if you like but at least now you can't plead ignorance!

... Cue the 'craicin', 'craicer post' nonsense...

[Ed]

heh.
Bizarro handwringing over semantics was a reference to the usual quality of writing in the Guardian - not to yourself.

Perhaps we can have an equally lively debate on the colloquialism that is the chill pill?

[Ed]

Screw it, I'll bite, if  for no other reason than the fact that I resent the implication that the people on this forum are ignorant. Ignorance != Apathy, people know where the word comes from, they just know it doesn't matter.

Far be it from me to lecture a language expert, but it was always my belief that a word does not have to originate in a given language to be used as such. Such word appropriation is commonly found in anglicised French words for example. I don't see why words can't be gaelicised, just as they are adopted by other languages.

The usage of a given word by society as a whole has far more bearing on its eventual accepted meaning then the erudite protestations of those with an axe to grind. In light of that I'd imagine your wet lipped rage to be somewhat futile, in addition to being misplaced (see post in the rewilding thread)

I'm sure the long transition from olde English to modern English had its share of detractors, regularly engaging in strident protestation at the deterioration of their beloved language by those around them. In the end it didn't make a lot of difference though so far as I can tell.

So - we've established that while you are factually correct on the origin of the word - it still has little bearing on whether or not it can be used in the manner preferred by those on the forum.

A little bit on emotional intelligence - people don't like it to be implied that they're stupid - especially when it comes to something minor, pedantic and irrelevant from any pragmatic perspective.

If you've been the subject of any jocular derision, it's a reaction based on the above.

To use another phrase locals are quite fond of "Nobody likes a smartarse"

My advice is to just drop this before you're any more beloved than you already are.

[Eamonn]

Totally agree with Aragorn

[KyleL]

Right that's it, I'm starting a new thread on the crack/craic debate (... and I really haven't got the time for it).

Heh. Made time to continue the crusade I see!

I wouldn't worry about it, our language is going to be so completely different in 50years or less - with text speak becoming the norm, we will soon be discussing the proper use of 'lol' and 'brb' (see George Orwells 1984).

Nit picking over these words does nothing but give us more ammo and lots of entertainment.

In the end, I don't care where the word comes from - I will continue to spell the word with an 'ai'.
"Good Craic" - is a fun time, "Good Crack!" Is a compliment to ones buttocks.

[Ed]

In the end, I don't care where the word comes from - I will continue to spell the word with an 'ai'.
"Good Craic" - is a fun time, "Good Crack!" Is a compliment to ones buttocks.

Or a compliment on the quality of one's freebase smoked cocaine

[Rich.H]

Screw it, I'll bite, if  for no other reason than the fact that I resent the implication that the people on this forum are ignorant. Ignorance != Apathy, people know where the word comes from, they just know it doesn't matter.

Totally unrelated to the post but had to comment to say that ignorant/ignorance etc is perhaps one of my favorite words to use simply for how it has changed it's meaning in modern society. I use it as per the dictionary definition and so have no problems calling someone ignorant, it is after all not a slander on their character nor a derogatory statement. But the looks you get of the politically correct crowd and the abuse from the rest who are brave enough to speak their minds always is worth the effort. 

[Ed]

Screw it, I'll bite, if  for no other reason than the fact that I resent the implication that the people on this forum are ignorant. Ignorance != Apathy, people know where the word comes from, they just know it doesn't matter.

Totally unrelated to the post but had to comment to say that ignorant/ignorance etc is perhaps one of my favorite words to use simply for how it has changed it's meaning in modern society. I use it as per the dictionary definition and so have no problems calling someone ignorant, it is after all not a slander on their character nor a derogatory statement. But the looks you get of the politically correct crowd and the abuse from the rest who are brave enough to speak their minds always is worth the effort. 

I dunno mate. To me being called ignorant I.e unknowing is a worse insult than the other slang meaning of "rudeness"

you're right though its quite a good example

[Rich.H]

Though we have to be ignorant otherwise we can't learn

[Ed]

That is true, we are all ignorant of something. in general though people don't react well to it being pointed out unless there's a half decent point in doing so.

[Ed]

was if you I had that drunken convo with about "how's she cuttin" or was that someone else?

[spin]

last word, last word

LIDL have some tents, solar powered torches and wetsuits in stock at the minute


last word, last word

[KyleL]

[sawmonkey]

Ha its weird how people in this country get so up tight about stupid things like language. I once got dumped by a wee girl because I wrote 'crack' instead of 'craic' in a text to her! Just for the record I aint bothered what way its spelt. As the great Ali G once asked: 'some of de problems in Ireland, people say maybe 'cos the irish is always up fer de craic?'

[Spud]

Brilliant!

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