Ben Nevis via CMD arete 21-23 May 2010

[NeilB]

I'm happy enough for may guys. What about kit lists?

May u think to early 666?

[MG1]

I'm happy enough with May.

[chris]

yeah may is fine, on the other hand I dont have money for crampons and new boots! I was looking at those pics and they dont seem to be wearing any... Maybe those spikes you can put over anything would do?

[666_pack]

don't know just hadn't thought about snow. Having done a bit more research it seem that may is still considered winter. And have no real winter climbing experience(crampon & ice axe use) it kind of threw me.

[666_pack]

def dont wanna have to buy new boots crampons and ice axe. I think you can hire them in fortt william but whats the piont if you can't ues them.

just something to think about. Is it worth traveling  that far only to have to turn back because we are underprepared?

[NeilB]

I don't mind guys, to be honest I have no real ice climbing exp either.

But if u want to put it back a month or 2
I don't mind

[666_pack]

hopefully that wont be the case Just a bit more research to keep my mind at ease....It would be a real kick in the balls to get there and have to turn back..

[billy backpack]

Come on guy's calm down even if we get there and we consider it beyond us there's still plenty to do (however I think it will all turn out ok and remember it's hardly costing the earth to go ... so chin's up and keep smilin  )

[chris]

I couldn't see us needing Ice axes! Crampons would be the worst case scenario but if you can rent them there then thats sweet, I'm sure we'd be able to figure out how to use them! As I said those pics were of a group and proper "pay them" Guide and I couldn't see any crampons or ice axes....

[MG1]

Is there any one on the Forum who has experience with crampons and could talk us through the basics?

[fatty-arbuckle]

Is there room for one more!?!

[chris]

Should be. There was talk of a mini bus and only 5 bodies confirmed, so I'm assuming we've a few seats to spare?

[twentyclicks]

Sorry I'll not be able to go on this trip (95% certain).  I bailed up Ben Nevis the 1st week in May at the end of the WHW last year.  It was just from the Glen Nevis valley.  Only took 2.5 hrs up, but there was snow the last 200 vertical metres and 10ft visibility.  It was perfectly walkable in our boots with the odd harmless slip as it transitioned back to rock.  Navigation was the important part - there are some pretty dangerous cliffs near the summit, and although there were plenty of cairns leading the way on our route, we couldn't see them until we were at them.

With the extra snow this year, I would fully expect there to still be a significant amount in May (beware of overhanging cornices on ridge).  This awesome route you propose is clearly less way-marked and involving a scramble, so being prepared for extra traction may be advised.  Saying that, an ice-axe is the first port of call because you need it to self-arrest if you slide off down a big slope.  You can also slash steps with it.
Why not drop an email to the MCoS (Mountaineering Council of Scotland) to ask about advice, or where you can get some.  A guide for the day may not be that expensive if split between you.

Below is some basic crampon info.  I can also recommend the BMC Winter Essentials DVD (more so the appendix bits than the 'story section', but it's all good).  You may all want to get together some evening and give it a watch.

Re: Crampon information.

Types
Crampons come in 3 grades (C1, C2, C3) that correspond to boots (B1, B2, B3).

C1 are typically 10 point/teeth crampons with some flex for walking, C2 are stiffer for mountaineering (often 12 points), and C3 are solid for ice climbing (usually 14 points).

Most walking boots don't really have the recesses at the toe and heel to take crampons, and are too flexible; but there are C1 crampons that are usable with a decent boot (ie, not a flexi, light summer trekking boot).

Use
First keep the points covered when not in use - they are very sharp and should stay that way. Keeping them in their bag will also stop the rubber stoppers coming off and tearing up your gear in your pack.

Put them on before you need them, when the ground is level or you can clear a flat spot to set down your pack and put them on.  Clear built up snow from your sole, and tighten the straps up well (check them after 5 mins).
They are for use on hard packed snow and ice, where the teeth give you grip.  Thus to get the most grip, you want all the teeth in contact with the ground.  Regarding walking in crampons you often the term "flat-footing" - which is pretty explanatory.  So work on your ankle flex if you plan on using them on slopes.
You have to walk with your legs 'slightly' wider apart and be careful not to stab your legs or slash your gaiters.

Hope that all helps.
Craig

[billy backpack]

Is there room for one more!?!

Should be. There was talk of a mini bus and only 5 bodies confirmed, so I'm assuming we've a few seats to spare?

I'm sure there is..... anyone is more than welcome to jump in on this or any trip we organise (the more the merrier) , the issue in the short term is the economics. We're working on trip cost's and previously with 5 going we all fitted in one vehicle so boat fare included it was very cheap yet once you book a mini bus and more peeps the cost soars, however if we can encourage more body's we could obviously bring the price down, The other option is 2 vehicles which to be fair I haven't checked yet (but will now).

[billy backpack]

Ok so just checked some prices and it seems 2 vehicles (cars) seems to be more economic for 6 people, but I think if we can get 1 or 2 more people we are within the original price range.

But obviously this is a group decision so what does everyone think.