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[andymcinroy]

The Forestry Land Byelaws (Northern Ireland) 2013 came into effect on the 17th of March.

Thankfully, pedestrian access (day and night) has been assured as a legal right (see previous NI-Wild thread). That much is great news.

Sadly, as regards lighting of fires/stoves, camping and cycling , there appears to be no change to the hardline stance taken by the DRD in relation to the forest byelaws.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/nisr/2013/30/contents/made

In particular,

10.—(1) A person shall not light any fire, stove or barbecue other than in an area designated for that purpose, unless otherwise permitted by the Department.

12.  A person shall not erect a tent or use a vehicle, caravan or any other structure for the purpose of camping without the permission of the Department.

13.—(1) A person shall not drive, ride, park or leave any mechanically propelled vehicle on to or upon any area of forestry land except—
(a)on a road, parking facility or paved area designated as being for the use of mechanically propelled vehicles;

What do people think of these byelaws? Anyone have any experience of these actually being enforced?

To me, the byelaws somewhat contradict the statement of vision made by Michelle O’Neill (The Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development)

....our vision to promote the wider recreational and social use of the Department’s forest lands. Public access to open space is a valuable resource, it gives us opportunities for tourism, for sport, it helps us to take exercise and look after our health, and reminds us of our rural environment and heritage. The public right of pedestrian access will complement local government policies on recreation and access to the countryside.

I find it sad that I have to break the law in order to take my children on a leave-no-trace wild camp to a quiet corner of the forest. I am also a law breaker if I cook sausages with them on a small campfire or stove. Nor can I cycle with them unless on one of the few designated' forest cycle paths (The NI Direct website lists only three forests with provision for family cycling, and only one with provision for mountain biking.)

How do these outcomes promote exercise and remind us of our rural environment, I ask you?

[Wolf_Larson]

I never liked the law anyway and it's my island !

The almighty says so 

[robertsreilly]

It's a terrible shame that is is office bods that make the legislation, not ourdoorsmen and women. It is a shame that we have to break the law to do most things which are worth doing outdoors. As someone else said on here, they wont be happy till we are all sitting on the sofa watching X Factor and getting fat on processed food.

I've never heard of anyone being moved on or pinched unless they were stupid enough to camp on a path.

[Glenn B]

You know what they say about laws.  I think a wee bit of common sense goes a long way on both sides.

[FlapJack]

A person shall not erect a tent or use a vehicle, caravan or any other structure for the purpose of camping without the permission of the Department

I don't think a bivy is covered by the the law here, so it's a bivy in the woods then 

[Kayakgirl]

That's dogging out!!

[ChuckMcB]

Will be interesting to see how this pans out over the summer re: enforcement

While camping in Donard Wood not allowed, would camping 100m away beside the Glenn river be allowed (as long as you don't nip into the woods to take wood for the fire)?

Application3.  These byelaws shall apply to forestry land.

Who 'owns' annalong wood? I'm pretty sure that the entire valley is owned by NI Water. but "forestry land" is quite a broad term...

A person shall not erect a tent or use a vehicle, caravan or any other structure for the purpose of camping without the permission of the Department

I don't think a bivy is covered by the the law here, so it's a bivy in the woods then 

Pretty sure it would be covered by "any other structure"...suppose a hammock is a structure as well.

There is some sensible stuff in there:

Protection of property6.  A person shall not—
(a)intentionally or recklessly interfere with any building, structure or official notice;
(b)drop or leave any lighted match, tobacco, cigar, cigarette or other burning material, or set fire to any tree or vegetation whether living or not;
(c)display any notice, placard or bill without the permission of the Department;
(d)leave open or obstruct any gate or moveable barrier that the Department has in place;
(e)drop or leave any rubbish, refuse or litter except in receptacles provided for that purpose.

Protection of forestry land and wildlife7.  A person shall not —
(a)dig up or remove any soil, turf, leafmould, moss, peat, gravel, stone, sand or minerals of any sort;
(b)intentionally or recklessly destroy or interfere with any plant, tree or flower;
(c)intentionally or recklessly disturb, injure, destroy, take or ill-treat any form of wildlife, or interfere with their habitats, or attempt to do so;
(d)pollute or do anything which is likely to pollute water; or interfere with or do anything which is likely to interfere with the flow of any water.

Anyhow, sounds like folks who like using the woods will just be forced to go deeper to keep out of sight.

Thanks for posting this Andy, seems it slipped by...

[FlapJack]

That's dogging out!!

LOL
Anyone for a spot of wild camping
Or some Bushcraft 
You light my fire

The puns are endless

[Kayakgirl]

That's dogging out!!

LOL
Anyone for a spot of wild camping
Or some Bushcraft 
You light my fire

The puns are endless

Lol

[rin44]

i pay my annual £48 forest pass every year , they can TRY and stop me ! ain,t gonna happen. some chubby pencil neck in an office came up with this BS no doubt . get lost !!

[Ed]

I'll just disregard it entirely.
What are they gonna do? Drag you down the mountain?

[twentyclicks]

I'd say outside of key holiday weekends who is going to be there to enforce it? It's probably to deter eegits or make it easier for them to enforce when such eegits are caught.
 
The Loch Lommond area in Scotland is heavily controlled like this now (in Scotland, where you can legally camp pretty much anywhere), but I was told it was because of trouble with car-campers and party goers who wreck the place: actual leave-no-trace wild campers were unlikely to be bothered.

There was a group from this forum moved on (or had their fire extinguished) by the fire service last year, but it was an awkward situation where the FS were actually attending to a nearby group who were getting out of hand, and it seemed they had to speak to the NI-wild crew to be fair.

I'd also question whether a bivvy bag could be classed as a structure in any court! The 'test of the reasonable bystander' or whatever it's called would surely be in your favour. A hammock would also be very hard to class as a structure... although once you combine a tarp with either setup you are encroaching on the definition quite quickly.
I don't think the 'mechanically propelled vehicle' part refers to bicycles. I like to think I'm a machine sometimes, but that's just ego 

[Ed]

Exactly Craig.
My bivvy bag is no more a structure than my coat is :-)

I reckon it'll have little impact on us lot

[Rusty Madra]

It's mostly unenforcable .... For example:

"Put that fire out and give me a name and address for a fine"

"No... I won't be giving you my name and address"

.... Where do they go from that point? Legally no park ranger can detain you for any of these "crimes". I can't imagine the Police hiking up to Donard Wood for a campfire fine dispute either.

Let's not get too militant about it tho. Obviously as responsible hikers we have the same goals as those trying to maintain and protect the outdoors. It really breaks my heart when I go past a camp spot and see the reminence of a 12th style bonfire, live branches broken off nearby trees and litter everywhere.

These laws might be good to counter that type of thing. I think leave no trace campers don't need to worry tho.

The most powerful thing we can do, as an outdoors community, is to educate and softly influence people into the leave no trace philosophy. If we shout and huff and go in hard with by laws recreational campers won't listen anymore.

If we get people believing in leave no trace not only will they stick with it: they'll also educate others.

[bigq]

10.—(1) A person shall not light any fire, stove or barbecue other than in an area designated for that purpose, unless otherwise permitted by the Department.

I generally agree with this. The consequences of the threat of fire - even from the most responsible of people - outweighs the enjoyment of a fire within a forested area.

Ok, so take the scenario: its late November, its been raining for 7 days and nights and nothing has a chance of being set alight. You've retreated from the high Mournes down into the fringes of Tollymore for shelter, and it is illegal to light your stove inside the porch of your tent, but you do so anyway. The stove explodes, your tent and all the contents are burnt. The tree beside you hasnt a chance of burning, but secretly it says thank you for the brief period of warmth. Yes, it does seem like a daft law given this scenario, but if it prevents a summer-time forest/heather fire as a result of careless people, then overall its a good thing.


12.  A person shall not erect a tent or use a vehicle, caravan or any other structure for the purpose of camping without the permission of the Department.

I therefore assume its ok to sleep inside a tent, as long as you dont erect it.

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