Topic: Primaloft VS Down (Read 23458 times)

kaya · « **on:** October 11, 2011 »

Hi

I just purchased the Mountain Equipment Fitzroy jacket. They say its comparable warmth to down but still warm when wet and has a waterproof coating.

I was wondering what people thought of primaloft compared to down.

LennyJ1 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 11, 2011 »

Welcome to the forum kaya, I have a down jacket and a primaloft one and the down is alot warmer but as most know if it gets wet its next to usless. where as primaloft is not as warm but if it gets wet then it can still perform.

Berghaus are making a range of down jacket that has DWR so if it gets wet it should still preform.

twentyclicks · « **Reply #2 on:** October 11, 2011 »

Primaloft is as warm as down of the some thickness (loft) as they trap the same air, but for the same weight, you tend to get much thicker down garments. Something like the Rab Photon Belay is probably close to the average down jacket, but 33-100% heavier and not as packable.

Lenny has noted the advancements to make down better in the wet, as synthetic continue to advance in weight and compressibility.

I have a Rab Generator Alpine primaloft jacket and a PHD down vest for flexibility. I only wear them when stationary.

LennyJ1 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 11, 2011 »

Or what he said lol

,

kaya · « **Reply #4 on:** October 11, 2011 »

Cheers, i am in two minds to send it back and get the ME lightline as it is around the same money and has a waterproof finish. It looks almost too warm though and i already have a North face nuptse, i figured the fitzroy would be a happy medium all rounder.

twentyclicks · « **Reply #5 on:** October 11, 2011 »

Stick with the Fitzroy!

The lightline is a slightly more technical jacket than the Nuptse but would be about the same warmth.
The Fitzroy will be a bit less warm but you'll get more use out of it in our wet weather. Whip out the Nuptse when the big freeze comes and you've something for every occasion.

If the Nuptse dies in the future, then the lightline would be a decent replacement (or a PHD minimus if you never wear it under a pack).

kaya · « **Reply #6 on:** October 11, 2011 »

Sorted, ill keep the Fitzroy, good advice!

RedLeader · « **Reply #7 on:** October 12, 2011 »

I'm quite interested in this question. I have a Berghaus down vest which is lovely and warm but I'm wondering how much heat I'd lose if I went to something Primaloft to save a bit of weight. The down vest is 443g so there's not likely a direct massive saving but I carry a fleece as well and it's 434g so if I could get a single more advanced piece of outerwear I might shave a couple of hundred grams.

suspectmonkey · « **Reply #8 on:** October 12, 2011 »

I think Primaloft often isn't compared like-for-like with down. For example, the Primaloft filled Rab Generator seems to get compared to the down filled Rab Neutrino but in my mind the two are totally different products designed for different uses. Primaloft filled jackets tend to be designed for more active multi-sport use as opposed to the "puffa" down jacket which is more likely to be seen sitting around in camp... or the local pub!

Going with the example above I think the Rab Generator is much more accurately compared to the down filled Rab Microlight. Both these insulated vests are designed for the same activities, have similar weight of fill and the Generator is only 40g heavier. Would be interested to hear how they compare in the real world for insulation, but I'd assume that 90g down fill would be warmer than 100g Primaloft.

Personally I have a Lowe Alpine Thermo jacket which is basically a clone of the Rab Generator but costs half the price. It has "LoweLoft" insulation instead of Primaloft, but it's the same idea and I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out of the same factory without the Primaloft branding. It's a really good jacket, very pleased with it. If I was going to buy a down vest then it would be the PHD Minimus that twentyclicks suggested, but I would wait for the PHD sale (which has just ended!)

twentyclicks · « **Reply #9 on:** October 12, 2011 »

Your generator / microlight comparison is very good. I'd say they'd be the same warmth though as same thickness. The generator would leak less (heat & water) from the stitch-through cold spots on the down microlight... when there is that little down fill the weight advantage disappears as it is mostly in the similar outer materials.

If RedLeader got a generator pull-on type thing ~350g and a PHD down vest ~240g he'd lose a few quid and a few grams. A thicker synthetic all-rounder like a Rab Photon or ME Fitzroy will be in the 500-600g range.

PHD sale rocks, and there's one about 3 times a year. There is £10 NI postage though. Still, £99 for a top of the range 800fill ultra-light down vest is pretty sweet...

suspectmonkey · « **Reply #10 on:** October 12, 2011 »

Quote from: twentyclicks on October 12, 2011

PHD sale rocks, and there's one about 3 times a year. There is £10 NI postage though. Still, £99 for a top of the range 800fill ultra-light down vest is pretty sweet...

Didn't get as far as calculating the postage, but the Minimus did get added to my basket a few times over the last couple of weeks! Just about managed to resist going through with the transaction. I also couldnt decide if it was worth spending the extra tenner on Drishell as I would likely only be wearing it in a tent or suchlike.

Truth told I'm waiting on you to start making your own insulated jackets Craig, then I can order one of them

LennyJ1 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 12, 2011 »

I have a Berghaus Furnace down jacket which is 700 fill and a berghaus Belay jacket which with stood the test of Kilimanjaro, both are very light and very warm, I must admit I am a sucker for Berghaus. and when there new down jacket comes down in price I will be buying.

RedLeader · « **Reply #12 on:** October 12, 2011 »

Hmm. So warmth for weight you're still plumping for down over synthetic? Seems my best plan would be to bin the microfleece and get a generator smock type jacket instead with a view to buying a lighter fill down vest when the Berghaus needs replaced? I'm all for saving 200g but it's probably not worth £200

Quote from: twentyclicks on October 12, 2011

Your generator / microlight comparison is very good. I'd say they'd be the same warmth though as same thickness. The generator would leak less (heat & water) from the stitch-through cold spots on the down microlight... when there is that little down fill the weight advantage disappears as it is mostly in the similar outer materials.

If RedLeader got a generator pull-on type thing ~350g and a PHD down vest ~240g he'd lose a few quid and a few grams. A thicker synthetic all-rounder like a Rab Photon or ME Fitzroy will be in the 500-600g range.

PHD sale rocks, and there's one about 3 times a year. There is £10 NI postage though. Still, £99 for a top of the range 800fill ultra-light down vest is pretty sweet...

twentyclicks · « **Reply #13 on:** October 12, 2011 »

RL - fleece is cheap and very effective, but a synth top would be warmer. Can't deny down does win for warmth v weight, but in this climate I need synth in the mix (because I'm stupid and always am happy to be soaked through until I stop and start to freeze).

Lenny - yeah, Berghaus stuff is really well made, and their extrem range is top technical kit - I love that they've really brought back the bright red/blue combo. Looks very pro

Suspect - hah! If I could get the right materials I would consider making my own clothes. It's certainly entertained frequently in my mind. Twentyclicks would have 2 simple ranges - a Walden philosophy range for anywhere, anytime, simple, subtle, effective and hardwearing... and a super tech range of minimal, bad-ass, alpine apparel. No logos, but unmistakable design. No choice, just the right choice!
As for dri-shell... I didn't bother for the same reason. Easy to pull a waterproof over it if there's dampness about.

kaya · « **Reply #14 on:** October 15, 2011 »

So the Fitzroy arrived and i diddnt think much to it and it was too small so i packaged it up for exchange. Then i dandered into the house of value outddor shop and derry and came across this http://www.outdoorgear4u.co.uk/category/ski-wear/mens-ski-jackets/trespass-igloo-down-jacket.php
This jacket is superbly finished and very nice on. It feels better than a £280 rab and looks great! It was a bargain at £60 so i snapped it up and will be gettin a refund on the fitzroy. It may not be a fancy label but i can tell you this is great piece of kit, warm and with the water repellency i was after! Trust me when i say i will wear this to death so ill let you know how it compares to the top brands i go through.

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Author Topic: Primaloft VS Down (Read 23458 times)

kaya

Primaloft VS Down

LennyJ1

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twentyclicks

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LennyJ1

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kaya

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twentyclicks

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kaya

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RedLeader

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suspectmonkey

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twentyclicks

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suspectmonkey

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LennyJ1

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RedLeader

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twentyclicks

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kaya

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