Topic: Outdoors shops in NI (Read 8667 times)

whoRya · « **on:** December 11, 2012 »

With the imminent closure of Tiso's in Belfast it will be another significant change in the outdoor equipment retail scene in NI. Some of the recent changes have surprised me and some less so.

With Millets and Blacks being in the same family their offering surprised me somewhat and I always felt they were losing their distinction. Millets a staple of value family camping and outdoor life seemed to be offering higher and higher spec gear. Blacks seemed to try (too) hard to be all things to all people. I don't think they complimented each other on the high street and had a confusing identity. Millets' absence from the likes of Abbeycentre is very noticeable to me as it seemed where they were most appropriately placed.

In Belfast city centre Surf Mountain recently left and currently only operate in Bangor. I can imagine the high city centre rent and rates of Belfast were a tough market to operate in.

Blacks seemed lost somewhere between Millets and Cotswold/Tiso. I didn't bother much with them and I suppose I don't miss them.

I was very surprised that Tiso announced they were closing as I thought there was plenty of room for them along-side Cotswold. When looking for big purchases of the type that I'd like to try before I buy e.g. boots and jackets then I very much would be of the mind that I want to look in more than one place.

The city centre still has Jackson Sports of course, I hope that continues to work for them. They seem to have a big online presence also which may help them maintain their place in the market. I don't know of too many other local independents that have much of an online presence.

A city centre location isn't ideal for everyone, I know Boucher Retail Park is very convenient for me but I do think there should be enough activity in Belfast to support a couple of shops offering good quality gear.

I wonder why so many have closed in the city centre? They must have been very reliant on the general public's interest in buying technical looking gear as a fashion statement. In the current economic climate has that been the factor to change? If participation in the DOE award scheme is anything to go buy then committed users of the gear are still buying it.

Who will continue to do well going forward? The departure of Blacks/Surf Mountain/Tiso must really favour Cotswold on consolidating their position. Same for Jackson Sports.

What about the independents outside of Belfast? Perhaps they are better set up to survive in this climate, lots of them seem to be quite diversified catering for other markets as well e.g. Lindsays in Colerine with its workwear focus. I was in Outdoor Adventure in Ballymena recently and they have lots of quality gear in stock (lots of dreamy Rab down gear) but they also run an antiques shop next door.

What are other peoples thoughts about how the local outdoor retail market has been redefined? Will your behaviour change? Are you less likely to go to Belfast and instead look at the other independents? I deliberately left out some obvious talking points e.g. Sports Direct, so that you can all have your say.

Man that was long to type!

specimanYak · « **Reply #1 on:** December 11, 2012 »

I was reading this article after hearing about the closure of Tisos in the city centre: http://www.geograph.ie/photo/3228929

“Northern Ireland continues to have the highest town centre shop vacancy rate in the UK, according to a new survey. The survey, on behalf of the British Retail Consortium, recorded high street footfall and shop occupancy. The survey reported that 14% of shops in Northern Ireland's high streets and shopping centres are empty, compared to the UK average of 11%”.

twentyclicks · « **Reply #2 on:** December 11, 2012 »

Blacks was always headed for trouble. Belfast was just one of a massive expansion across the UK...they set up fast, undercut everyone and had some very aggressive marketing (eg. vandalising adverts for other stores). It wasn't a sustainable model and looks to have taken Millets down with it. The "Scout Shop" or whatever it's called now is probably filling the family camping gap, and whatever discount outlets are in out-of-town complexes.

I believe the lease on Tiso had come around again, and on a thoroughfare to Victoria Sq had been hiked up drastically. The shop beside has been empty for years... probably trying to price them all out to redevelop the block or get a multi-national company in. There's something like 25% commercial property empty in town and yet they keep rates extortionate and keep contracting ridiculous new complexes. Way to invigorate the high-street and not just line the pockets of external developers!

I've always spent my money about equally between local stores and online when it comes to gear (outside of working in a gear shop). I'm pretty particular about what I need so get it where I can. Unless it's a mega-sale bargain I don't mind paying a little bit more in a shop... they can sometimes price-match anyway, or order in special items that you can't get anywhere.

Haven't been in Hilltrekker in years...I imagine it's good for the local scene, some tourists, and last minute forgotten items.

RedLeader · « **Reply #3 on:** December 11, 2012 »

I suppose it's worth remembering that Tiso, Cotswolds and Blacks are fairly recent arrivals on the scene in Northern Ireland. Jacksons and Millets had been there for years but it always struck me that there were really quite a lot of outdoor shops vying for the same market, all very close together. Kudos to Jacksons for sticking it out when the bigger boys moved in next door! I did find it odd that Tiso closed when Cotswolds around the corner stayed open despite having only opened recently while Tiso had been there a few years.

Personally, I don't want to go all grumpy, but the price of outdoor gear is incredible, especially jackets. £300 for a waterproof coat is just insane. Maybe if manufacturers set a more reasonable price people would buy more rather than pricing people out of the market!

twentyclicks · « **Reply #4 on:** December 11, 2012 »

Quote from: RedLeader on December 11, 2012

the price of outdoor gear is incredible, especially jackets. £300 for a waterproof coat is just insane. Maybe if manufacturers set a more reasonable price people would buy more rather than pricing people out of the market!

I'd have to disagree on this point. Taking inflation into consideration I believe (think there was an article about it the other year) that most outdoor gear is equivalently cheaper these days than say 20 years ago. It's just that we all want pro-quality gear made with the top fabrics. The £300 waterproof does meet a need for certain people and they make it available to the rest of us, if only to show the pedigree of the lower models and make the mid-range appear less expensive. There are plenty of cheaper jackets out there (Berghaus RG1, Marmot Precip, TNF Resolve, Montane Lightspeed, Trekmates!), and the margins on them are in all likelihood greater for the company than the top range model. Jeans are way more overpriced generally, than this specialist functional gear.

Our desires are the sources of our discontent.... I'm probably more guilty than most and need to reign myself in (for someone who was searching for 1 rucksack to do everything, I now have 6)!

Remember most of it is made of oil which never gets cheaper. There are cars that cost £200K+, but I bet no-one here owns one.

I do agree that there were probably too many competing for a limited market. There's barely 2 record stores in Belfast anymore.

Fred · « **Reply #5 on:** December 12, 2012 »

I have to agree with Redleader, the price of performance outdoor gear is quite high, at least high enough to discourage impulse buying. Im probably typical of most other outdoor people who would be buying mid-range equipment, I research the available products on the internet first, then look at who actually sells what I want. This doesnt really help the high street retailer who cannot keep all the products that we might want. Ten or fifteen years ago things were different. There was less selection of equipment and with less internet shopping, most purchases started with a deliberate tour of the outdoor shops.

I know that Hill trekker in Newcastle is struggling. They try to carry a diverse range of products but just dont get the footfall that city centre shops get. Sunday trading laws dont help them either since they cannot open early enough to catch the day trippers. Jacksons have the right idea - go online!

Fred

twentyclicks · « **Reply #6 on:** December 12, 2012 »

Quote from: Fred on December 12, 2012

at least high enough to discourage impulse buying.

I know that Hill trekker in Newcastle is struggling.... Sunday trading laws dont help them either since they cannot open early enough to catch the day trippers.

Yes, that would hit Hill Trekker pretty hard. Good point.

Well, I've already pointed out my thoughts on the pricing, but regards discouraging impulse buying... in a 20th Century economics perspective this is bad for neglecting to extract money from the consumer, but frankly I think 20th Century economics are skewed and delusional (overall...our society has been shaped by them in a completely unsustainable way). As a subset of the society who values the outdoors, it's probably a good thing that we reduce demand on world resources by considering our purchases and not impulse buying. If everyone 'buys cheap and buys twice' we are using twice as much for the same gain. This is probably a secondary effect rather than industry driven, but one which I feel the industry and its consumer should embrace... as well as the recycling (as per Patagonia) and repair of old items.

A visionary may have used this long down-turn as a pause for reflection and provided opportunity in a new direction to steer us free from the old ways, but still we clamour for growth as if it is infinite and the rest of the world can have what we have with no repercussions on us.

None of this is directed at anyone here, I am merely riffing on the thoughts we are discussing (and happen to be reading 'Small is beautiful' at the moment which has me particularly fired up on the matter)

t18con · « **Reply #7 on:** December 12, 2012 »

just a couple of points, i spent a fair amount of money on a northface 3 in on coat (urban type) approx 7 years ago. ive reproofed it this winter, but its still going strong. devide that 200+quid out over seven years and it isnt THAT extortionate.

noone has mentioned the trespass shops springing up everywhere (scottish brand i believe)

the outlet at banbridge has/used to have about 5 outdoors type shops too.

surfnscenic · « **Reply #8 on:** December 12, 2012 »

Lisburn recently got a Tresspass shop just near to the front of the Bow Street Mall. Surfmountain who have a shop a bit out of the main thoroughfare regulalrly opened temporary premises more into the town.

They have now moved the main shop into Bow St opposite Tresspass, a move I feel puts them into a better trading position and perhaps, without knowing the ins and outs should have been considered earlier.

I'll be more inclined to at least have a look around Surfmountain when considering a purchase.

t18con · « **Reply #9 on:** December 12, 2012 »

tbh i had never even heard of surfmountain, and have never set foot inside jacksons either.

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whoRya

Outdoors shops in NI

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Fred

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