Topic: NI Forest Byelaws 2013 - Now in operation (Read 15660 times)

LandyLiam · « **Reply #15 on:** April 08, 2013 »

Quote

but if it prevents a summer-time forest/heather fire as a result of careless people, then overall its a good thing.

The sad truth is that it probably won't

enforcement of the laws are the problem and those that are likely to make a complete mess and light the most unsafe fires will continue to do so.

Here's a system that might work, responsible forest users could apply for a permit to wildcamp, maybe a deposit could be paid which could be returned after the ranger had passed the campsite and confirmed no trace was left. With the technology available these days one could simply text the ranger your camping location and he could do a spot check if required. This would also be useful if forest fires did occur as the local ranger should know who is in the "line of fire". I'm sure a good relationship would spring up with regular users who could then let the ranger know of any suspect behaviour

Ed · « **Reply #16 on:** April 08, 2013 »

Quote from: LandyLiam on April 08, 2013

Quote
but if it prevents a summer-time forest/heather fire as a result of careless people, then overall its a good thing.
The sad truth is that it probably won't enforcement of the laws are the problem and those that are likely to make a complete mess and light the most unsafe fires will continue to do so.

Here's a system that might work, responsible forest users could apply for a permit to wildcamp, maybe a deposit could be paid which could be returned after the ranger had passed the campsite and confirmed no trace was left. With the technology available these days one could simply text the ranger your camping location and he could do a spot check if required. This would also be useful if forest fires did occur as the local ranger should know who is in the "line of fire". I'm sure a good relationship would spring up with regular users who could then let the ranger know of any suspect behaviour

That could work.

Even if they didn't want to go for that, a yearly wild-camping pass which funded ranger patrols would be better than just banning the fun for everyone

Wolf_Larson · « **Reply #17 on:** April 09, 2013 »

Money is the matter and I'm the latter.

kiltedrunner · « **Reply #18 on:** April 10, 2013 »

Quote from: LandyLiam on April 08, 2013

Quote
but if it prevents a summer-time forest/heather fire as a result of careless people, then overall its a good thing.
The sad truth is that it probably won't enforcement of the laws are the problem and those that are likely to make a complete mess and light the most unsafe fires will continue to do so.

Here's a system that might work, responsible forest users could apply for a permit to wildcamp, maybe a deposit could be paid which could be returned after the ranger had passed the campsite and confirmed no trace was left. With the technology available these days one could simply text the ranger your camping location and he could do a spot check if required. This would also be useful if forest fires did occur as the local ranger should know who is in the "line of fire". I'm sure a good relationship would spring up with regular users who could then let the ranger know of any suspect behaviour

I was going to try something like that, its mentioned in another thread here somewhere. Its an application to use land for 'various activities'

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/do-it-online/leisure-home-and-community-online/download-application-form-for-permits-for-vehicles-and-activities-in-forests.htm

So you could give that a try though Ive already been warned by another user that its a no go.

andymcinroy · « **Reply #19 on:** April 10, 2013 »

It is interesting to read what the Scottish access code says about wild camping and camp fires.

http://www.snh.gov.uk/docs/A309336.pdf

If you read through the entire document you will see a far more sensible framework in a country that values outdoor recreation very highly. At the end of the day, if you burn down a forest then you will be liable for those damages which might mean losing your home or other assets under a civil claim made by the forestry service. That is assuming that they can show that you have been negligent.

Wherever possible, use a stove rather than light an open fire. If you do wish
to light an open fire, keep it small, under control and supervised – fires that
get out of control can cause major damage, for which you might be liable.
Never light an open fire during prolonged dry periods or in areas such as
forests, woods, farmland, or on peaty ground or near to buildings or in
cultural heritage sites where damage can be easily caused. Heed all advice
at times of high risk. Remove all traces of an open fire before you leave.

bigq · « **Reply #20 on:** April 10, 2013 »

Quote from: andymcinroy on April 10, 2013

If you read through the entire document you will see a far more sensible framework in a country that values outdoor recreation very highly. At the end of the day, if you burn down a forest then you will be liable for those damages which might mean losing your home or other assets under a civil claim made by the forestry service. That is assuming that they can show that you have been negligent.

Trying to reclaim money afterwards will be little benefit to the ecology and wildlife thats been destroyed.

I'm guessing most people visiting the forests wouldnt have enough assets to fully reimburse for all damages.
I'd even stick my neck out and say that the greater fire risk comes from people will very little assets, e.g. irresponsible youths out for a weekend drinking and partying, or as we have seen in Derry over the past few weeks where youths are deliberately lighting gorse fires for the craic.

(I dont mean to be so stereotypical, as I certainly know that the vast majority of people, and vast majority of youths are responsible outdoor people.)

piczo · « **Reply #21 on:** April 10, 2013 »

Quote from: bigq on April 08, 2013

10.—(1) A person shall not light any fire, stove or barbecue other than in an area designated for that purpose, unless otherwise permitted by the Department.

I generally agree with this. The consequences of the threat of fire - even from the most responsible of people - outweighs the enjoyment of a fire within a forested area.

Ok, so take the scenario: its late November, its been raining for 7 days and nights and nothing has a chance of being set alight. You've retreated from the high Mournes down into the fringes of Tollymore for shelter, and it is illegal to light your stove inside the porch of your tent, but you do so anyway. The stove explodes, your tent and all the contents are burnt. The tree beside you hasnt a chance of burning, but secretly it says thank you for the brief period of warmth. Yes, it does seem like a daft law given this scenario, but if it prevents a summer-time forest/heather fire as a result of careless people, then overall its a good thing.

12. A person shall not erect a tent or use a vehicle, caravan or any other structure for the purpose of camping without the permission of the Department.

I therefore assume its ok to sleep inside a tent, as long as you dont erect it.

Did'nt mention hammocks

RedLeader · « **Reply #22 on:** April 16, 2013 »

I'm almost certain that the sections on camping and fires/stoves have always been in the bylaws, or at least since the 70s anyway. I'm also almost certain that as it stands all lands within the Mourne Wall (Annalong Wood included) belong to the water board and fall under a different set of rules. I'm also almost certain that beyond the wall at the top of Donard Forest (by the Ice House) is where the Forestry Commission land ends and the National Trust land starts (I have no idea what the NT have to say about camping but I'm guessing it isn't "enjoy yourself"). If anyone fancies a bit of legwork, I'm sure the old bylaws will be on the internet somewhere.

As far as I'm concerned not worrying about this issue because enforcement seems unlikely is a bad plan. This issue is about having some basic rights and freedoms as an individual that shouldn't be removed in a blanket ban by lazy politicians who can't be bothered to come up with a better idea. What the hell happened to the country that it became actually illegal to make a cup of tea in a forest. The mind boggles.

Edit:
I think this document is the one that used to be on noticeboards in forestry commission forests:
http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/forest-service-bye-laws.pdf

whoRya · « **Reply #23 on:** April 16, 2013 »

Funny that it is illegal to light a fire in "any of the lands that are under the control of the Department of Agriculture and have been declared to be Forest Parks" yet they have base plates on the picnic tables to set your BBQs on.

Isn't it just the case that the law is there and has always been there but (so far) common sense has been applied in the enforcement of it. I can't see anyone trying to define what acceptable fires are and what aren't acceptable. My hope is just that common sense and interpretation is used by forestry staff. Hopefully the staff receive training about how to make judgements based on the circumstances.

What do the Scottish forestry service do? If there is a better way to do it they have probably already done so.

Edit: The Forestry Commission looks after forests in Scotland, here is their byelaws, and yes they ban stoves, fires and tents too. The byelaws are from 1982, I don't know if any subsequent legislation e.g. open access laws, conferred any further rights for forestry land.

Another Edit: Keep answering my own questions

Scottish access laws

Open access land includes "woods and forests".

"Recreational activities is not defined in the legislation, but is taken to include:
...active pursuits:...and wildcamping. "

Didn't see any mention of fires and stoves.

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Author Topic: NI Forest Byelaws 2013 - Now in operation (Read 15660 times)

LandyLiam

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Ed

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Wolf_Larson

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kiltedrunner

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andymcinroy

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bigq

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piczo

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RedLeader

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whoRya

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