Northern Ireland Outdoors Forum - Hiking, camping and more
General => General Chat => Topic started by: Rich.H on June 13, 2013
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I'm a member of the bushcraftuk forum and read a post there from a member who has been royally stiffed while out and about. The short version is he was carrying some sharps in a bag to an area he does various bushcraft activities in and got stopped by the police. They searched and confiscated all the sharps giving him a caution. After heading to the station they returned his spoon knife, axe and saw but oddly kept a fixed blade knife giving silly grounds of it being a weapon etc.
Obviously it shows how some police officers are clearly lacking in both common sense and the law but I'm curious if anyone else has had anything like this here?
The full thread is here and contains more details about the actual events including the police responses in the days after when the chap is trying to get his knife back. http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108803 (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=108803)
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Unfortunately this is just a sign of the times. Stay at home watching Jeremy Kyle people - there's nothing to see outside and you might slip and injure yourself.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—for ever". Too much ?
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It would appear to be unfair to keep his knife and I sympathise with him. However, I'm curious why they stopped and searched him in the first place. Perhaps someone had made a complaint about people in that area carrying knives, or his dress and demeanour were suspicious?
Fred
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I'm fairly well versed on the case law and legislation relating to blades/points. In a nutshell it's a legal minefield. There are numerous laws that can be enacted/enforced depending on how dedicated/informed/spiteful the police who deal with you are.
There is no clear formula for the application of the law in cases like these. Much depends on the specific circumstances, the decisions the police make, everyone's attitude and which specific laws are brought into play (or ignored).
As a rule of thumb however if you have a lawful purpose for being in possession of a blade/point and the circumstances reflect this then you should be ok. For example if you're strolling down Newcastle High Street with a rucksack and a pair of gaiters on being found in possession of a hunting knife for bushcraft should not elicit a harsh response from the police.
The problem comes in the grey areas. For example 4 teenagers walking down the same street in jeans and showing eachother the same knife. They may well be on their way to Donard Wood for a bit of bushcraft but who's to know?. In both examples the law may have been broken but it is more likely to be enforced in one circumstance than the other.
Crucially I'd say if challenged about anything you're carrying the following points may smooth the waters and could have you strolling on your way with your blade incident free:
1) Be polite and friendly.
2) Be specific about what your doing
If it looks like it's getting serious and any action looks like its going to be taken don't make any comments until you speak to a solicitor.
Ultimately try not to get to this place tho. If you're up front about what you're doing and the police are satisfied that you're a reasonable person with valid reasons for the item 95% of the time you'll have no problem. The other 5% usually involves dubious circumstances and bad attitudes.
In short a bit of manners goes a long way in these circumstances, yes I know the law should be black and white but it's usually far from this. The best option is usually to defuse the situation before the law is mentioned.
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When you mention Newcastle, I remember a couple of years ago, the police were called to deal with a nutter who was brandishing a samurai sword on Newcastle beach!
Fred
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Rusty you make some good point in the world of common sense. But its clear half the world lives in loopy land so could and should really just dont work. If you ask four different police officers about blades your likely to get four different answers because there is no clear standard. We have clear gun regulations, clear car regulations etc but for some reason knives/axes etc are left in limbo at the whim of has the officer got a clue or had a bad day.
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If its bushcraft It should be fine in my eyes but the law stinks :(