Northern Ireland Outdoors Forum - Hiking, camping and more
General => General Chat => Topic started by: LandyLiam on September 04, 2012
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With the ever increasing pressure on ourselves to be safe and carry more gear, and also as our confidance & fitness increase we are hiking greater distances, we realise that we are going to have to spend good money to keep our pack weight manageable. But have we ever put a price on the weight? if we figure out what a kilogramme is worth it may influence our purchaes, e.g. i reckon most people would easily spend an extra £50 on a coat that was 1kg lighter, but how would we also spend same money on titanium cutlery or tent pegs to save much less weight? obviously this all depends on your disposable budget (and the fact than titanium cutlery is less likely to get noticed by the other half than a new hagloffs coat ::) )
So quickly select an option on the poll, then think about what you have actually spent, and see if your option changes (you can change your vote in the poll)
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Interesting thread, I know I'm about to go from a nice disposable weekly wage to nearly none at all. So buying lightweight gear probably won't be something I'll be spending extra money on.
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Great question. 1kg is quite a bit when you're talking about people who are already lightweight. Like TwentyClicks can do a fortnight in the Mournes with a knife and a spare pair of underpants so a kilo represents a good proportion of packweight whereas if you're used to carrying 16kg then 1kg isn't such a massive saving and therefore worth less money.
I try and stay around 11kg for lightweight and 14kg for more relaxed weekends and at the lighter end I'd definitely think that it was worth £100+ to save a kilo but whether I'd actually part with the money is a different matter.
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Like TwentyClicks can do a fortnight in the Mournes with a knife and a spare pair of underpants ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Titanium spoon?
Yesterday I spent £7.50 to save 75 grams so that worked out exactly £100 for 1kg :)
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£100+ for sure...because that's what it costs when you're already light yourself, you've ditched everything you don't need, and the cheap options are used up or not sufficiently durable/performing for what you require (or the DIY materials/skills/time are not available)!
I had to talk myself out of £400 (right now for the MMM: these things will be bought eventually) for a 200g waterproof and 500g +4 sleeping bag... saving me er... 500g :-[ Admittedly, these things are also functionally superior to my current offerings, but it was cold and hard when I saw the figures. But trying to be competitive in the MMM, that 500g is your share of the tent carried for free plus the added value of increased comfort and protection.
Lightweight overnighter for me is 4.5kg MMM base weight. GR20 base weight was luxurious at 9kg.
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Functionally superior is another interesting question. Sometimes the quest to shed weight means less functional, ie smaller tarp or less well rated sleeping bag. Of course, the easiest way to shed weight is to leave something at home which costs nothing :)
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If some of you weighed my hydration pack that I use for cycling I think it would shock you. Yes I am on a bike but it is heavy probably overkill too. 3 litre of water for an all day ride. Multitool, medical kit, space blanket, tubes, emergency gels, head torch, few coins, mobile, Swiss army knife, cable ties, pump, rain coat, pain killers etc
I have a light bike with tiny pedals, tubeless wheels, light weight component package then I put my 13stone on it with an oversized load in the hydropack.
I can go lighter an carry the bare minimum but the hydropack has saved my back on a number of times when I came off. So I think of it as extra padding
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What about loosing weight ourselves. I see it more in the road cycling big guys spending big bucks on a carbon frame and wheels, lightweight multi tools carbon sole shoes etc. and they are way over weight. But then again maybe that's why they are out there trying to loose the weight.
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Interesting thread.
I think titanium is a bit of a mixed bag regarding saving weight. Titanium is actually heavier than aluminium of the same size. Its a great lightweight substitute for steel but not always for aluminium. Some titanium cups and cooking items are heavier than the cheap plastic stuff but we seem to desire them anyway. Those needle pegs that Typon mentions are virtually worthless and almost always have to be replaced with bigger ones. For many years I used a cheap aluminium saucepan bought from poundstretcher which actually weighed the same as a rather more expensive snowpeak titanium pot of similar capacity. My favourite way to save weight is simply to leave stuff at home, and its free!
Fred
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Here's an interesting point to think about (may not be applicable to everyone)
Fancy cutting 6kg of weight for the price of ... wait for it FREE!
Sounds good doesn't it? 6kg is roughly a stone, so if you can't afford special lightweight equipment, you can cut weight off elsewhere, like bodyfat.
**re-read this and it sounded a bit vague, clearer now**
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I'd agree. I have a titanium pot/pan set and it's pretty much the same weight as the similarly sized Trangia Mini pot/pan but the aluminium stuff doesn't cool as quickly, doesn't have a strange feel/taste and costs a fraction of the price.
Interesting thread.
I think titanium is a bit of a mixed bag regarding saving weight. Titanium is actually heavier than aluminium of the same size. Its a great lightweight substitute for steel but not always for aluminium. Some titanium cups and cooking items are heavier than the cheap plastic stuff but we seem to desire them anyway. Those needle pegs that Typon mentions are virtually worthless and almost always have to be replaced with bigger ones. For many years I used a cheap aluminium saucepan bought from poundstretcher which actually weighed the same as a rather more expensive snowpeak titanium pot of similar capacity. My favourite way to save weight is simply to leave stuff at home, and its free!
Fred
I can't believe you just sucked the fun out gear buying ;)
Here's an interesting point to think about (may not be applicable to everyone)
Fancy cutting 6kg of weight for the price of ... wait for it FREE!
Sounds good doesn't it? 6kg is roughly a stone, so if you can't afford special lightweight equipment, you can cut weight off elsewhere, like bodyfat.
**re-read this and it sounded a bit vague, clearer now**
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My personal favourite way to reduce weight on day walks in the mournes is simply to bring less water and drink from streams. My friends burden themselves with kilos of bottled water but I only carry a small bottle. Maybe this isnt for everyone but I have never got ill from mountain water yet.
Taking a good dump before leaving home should save everyone a bit too!
Fred
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Alpkit are currently selling titanium sporks for £2.40. Only 12g but the purchase lacks the rewarding feeling of spending over the odds for something that you dont really need.
Thanks to Oisin for the tip about the sale.
Fred
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I suppose if you are just boiling water, aluminium is ok, but I don't like the idea of cooking food in it or trying to clean burnt-on remnants as it's easier to damage and leaches with acids in foods etc. Admittedly, the matt surface finish on the titanium is curious to me, but the pot I use is robust and a nice shape/size, with a perfect fitting lid. Can't beat the stainless for a bigger cooking pot, just scrub it with anything (grass and gravel!) and it's like new.
I do agree on the pegs... I find round/pin pegs useless in most grounds. For a quick pitch and not having to get up in the night to re-peg, I'm very happy with the still-very-light Y pegs. I suppose 10 is quite a lot, but you could maybe just use the pins for some of the less-essential points?
Interesting thread.
I think titanium is a bit of a mixed bag regarding saving weight. Titanium is actually heavier than aluminium of the same size. Its a great lightweight substitute for steel but not always for aluminium. Some titanium cups and cooking items are heavier than the cheap plastic stuff but we seem to desire them anyway. Those needle pegs that Typon mentions are virtually worthless and almost always have to be replaced with bigger ones. For many years I used a cheap aluminium saucepan bought from poundstretcher which actually weighed the same as a rather more expensive snowpeak titanium pot of similar capacity. My favourite way to save weight is simply to leave stuff at home, and its free!
Fred
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I thought aluminium had been found to be entirely safe for cookware?
I suppose if you are just boiling water, aluminium is ok, but I don't like the idea of cooking food in it or trying to clean burnt-on remnants as it's easier to damage and leaches with acids in foods etc. Admittedly, the matt surface finish on the titanium is curious to me, but the pot I use is robust and a nice shape/size, with a perfect fitting lid. Can't beat the stainless for a bigger cooking pot, just scrub it with anything (grass and gravel!) and it's like new.
I do agree on the pegs... I find round/pin pegs useless in most grounds. For a quick pitch and not having to get up in the night to re-peg, I'm very happy with the still-very-light Y pegs. I suppose 10 is quite a lot, but you could maybe just use the pins for some of the less-essential points?
Interesting thread.
I think titanium is a bit of a mixed bag regarding saving weight. Titanium is actually heavier than aluminium of the same size. Its a great lightweight substitute for steel but not always for aluminium. Some titanium cups and cooking items are heavier than the cheap plastic stuff but we seem to desire them anyway. Those needle pegs that Typon mentions are virtually worthless and almost always have to be replaced with bigger ones. For many years I used a cheap aluminium saucepan bought from poundstretcher which actually weighed the same as a rather more expensive snowpeak titanium pot of similar capacity. My favourite way to save weight is simply to leave stuff at home, and its free!
Fred
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Alpkit are currently selling titanium sporks for £2.40. Only 12g but the purchase lacks the rewarding feeling of spending over the odds for something that you dont really need.Thanks to Oisin for the tip about the sale.
Fred
If it makes you feel better Fred, the minimum spend is £4. Therefore can pay £4 for a £2.40 item and feelings of paying over the odds are restored.
Taking a good dump before leaving home should save everyone a bit too!
There is nothing like the feeling of heading for an overnighter knowing that nature has already taken its course. :D
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I wonder if I should buy a bunch of spoons and use them as tent pegs!
fred
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I ordered one of the long handles ones. I'll review its peg-suitability after the next windy summit camp.
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I thought aluminium had been found to be entirely safe for cookware?
You could be right: I'm probably going off an in-built feeling based on 10yr old news.
It clearly hasn't been outright deemed unsafe or they wouldn't be allowed to sell it...and the camping argument would be that it's used rarely enough to have no real affect.
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It was my understanding that there was a scare over people who had died from Alzheimers having high concentrations of aluminium in their brains but that the link between that and cookware had been discredited and another cause had been identified.
http://alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=99
Personally I Love aluminium, it's tough enough, light, transfers heat well and is pretty easy to clean.
I thought aluminium had been found to be entirely safe for cookware?
You could be right: I'm probably going off an in-built feeling based on 10yr old news.
It clearly hasn't been outright deemed unsafe or they wouldn't be allowed to sell it...and the camping argument would be that it's used rarely enough to have no real affect.
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Well, I shall be open to try it again if the need arises for new cookware.
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I think that the aluminium issue is a bit of a grey area. There seem to be confliciting opinions on the net regarding it but it probably does no harm to be cautious and reduce your exposure to it. Its widely used in deoderants, food additives and medications anyway. As I see it, I only cook in aluminium pots occasionally so it probably doesnt effect my exposure very much.
fred
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I ordered one of the long handles ones. I'll review its peg-suitability after the next windy summit camp.
I hope you ordered me one as well, me old mucker. ;)
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Off off topic.. how did you manage to get a hunka? Alpkit still don't have them in stock?
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Yeah the material itself will be waterproof. The new TX-direct DWR is so good, I'm sure it would have the bag as new, even with no prior coating.
Bargain!
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Yeah, it is rather larger. I'd probably stick at least half a bottle in. It's a few quids worth but it needs blasted. Not sure if there's a slow cycle or way to pause the machine before the rinse to let it seep longer?
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