Northern Ireland Outdoors Forum - Hiking, camping and more
General => General Chat => Topic started by: Mourneman on August 18, 2012
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Thursday was one of those days,that's the only way to start!
Ed,Rusty & myself had been planning a Circular trek in the inner Mournes hoping to take in the Devils coacroad,the Shelter stone & Ben Crom reserve.It was an early start to the day with me catching the 7.15 bus to Newcastle,ed & rusty would be meeting me in Newcastle.
With some time to kill I got some coffee & availed of some free hot water for my instant porridge,the views along Newcastle promenade are excellent
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8429/7804636954_0685cafb36_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7804636954/)
Panorama457 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7804636954/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
With some time to kill I got some coffee & availed of some free hot water for my instant porridge,the views along Newcastle promenade are excellent
With rusty & ed now arrived in Newcastle we made our way along the main street towards Donard park,I've always disliked the Glen river path,so we used the other trek through the woods just past the YMCA,reaching the second bridge we noticed lots of forestry work going on,again we turned into the woods taking the inner trial towards the last bridge.
Now onto the trek & past the Ice-house,our pace was quite good & we reached the ascent to saddle,stopping to catch our breath & take in some views.The weather was cloudy,humid,with forecasted rain later in the day we were hoping to by back on the saddle for around three or four o'clock.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8307/7803044634_364a235785.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803044634/)
3 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803044634/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
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4 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803044132/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
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5 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803043560/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
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6 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803043118/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8284/7803042824_f2dcb8d529.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803042824/)
7 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803042824/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
Reaching the Commedagh,Donard col we stopped for food in true "Hobbit" style,sausage,bacon,mushrooms,having filled our guts we crossed over the stile hooking onto the Brandy Pad.
After a while we turned onto the trail leading onto Beg so the guys could have a look down the Devils coachroad,also a good chance to get the Slieve Beg summit geocache.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8304/7803042442_32d05f6bfc.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803042442/)
8 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803042442/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7256/7803041864_093f94a62a.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803041864/)
9 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803041864/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
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10 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803041374/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
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11 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803040956/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
We descended slieve Beg into Annalong valley along a gorge,it was at this pont Rusty got a call & needed to get home a.sa.p,so we decided to walk him over to the Carricklittle trek we're he got the Mourne rambler bus to Newcastle.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8294/7803040690_1a62c21676.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803040690/)
12 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803040690/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
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13 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803040064/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8302/7803039478_152b320eab.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803039478/)
14 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803039478/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
Another wee check on the weather,overcast but slightly colder,reaching Blue lough we stopped again for some steaks & coffee.with our bellies full again we crossed over the Binnian,Lamagan col dropping down the steep descent onto Ben Crom reserve,with the first drops of rain hitting us as stepped onto the trial to the Shelter stone,the trek itself was much better the the one on the other bank i took last week.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7132/7803039028_778bd30b40.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803039028/)
15 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803039028/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8292/7803038246_cd4e6cd008.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803038246/)
17 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803038246/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
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18 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803037834/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7267/7803037322_6e07e99389.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803037322/)
20 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803037322/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
On an OS 125 it shows a trek running from Ben Crom reserve back onto the Brandy pad, " it's not there "well nothing more that a broken goat trek,at this point the rain really started to pour down something serious,with some severe scree slope on the Kileel we decided to ascend to avoid the danger.
We were not faced with another obstacle the swollen Kikeel river,our ideal crossing point was a "no-go" so we continued along its bank searching for a crossing point,the pace was slow having to manevoer over boulders,finally we found a spot to cross,I went first with ed just behind me.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8292/7803036490_0babc17d01.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803036490/)
21 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803036490/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8304/7803036038_36b5bbf290.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803036038/)
22 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803036038/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
We started the steep ascent towards the Brandy pad & it was great to be on a well trotted trek,earlier in the day we had passed a few spots on the Brandy pad where the scree breaks the path & it now concerned, me as to how much water was flowing down it,reaching this point my fears were now a reality,with
Some carefully placed footing we crossed the first hazard.
Now reaching the castles of Commedagh we reached into Eds pack for our head torches in the failing light,"they were gone " we must have lost them crossing one of the rivers,at this point alarms bells started to ring,it was getting dark,we still had water to cross,& very steep ground to descent without torches.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7256/7803035646_2a77c41082.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803035646/)
23 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803035646/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
Questions & answers were rattling around my head,can we descent without torches,what waters still need crossed,how late are we now from checking in,should we start to contact folk?At this point the wind began to increase
With visiability now down to around 8 feet I decided to make the call !
Making a decision like that's never easy,pride plays a lot on you're mind,it's embarrassing having to ask for help,admitting you need assistance,but with serious risk of hypothermia I swallowed my pride & dialled 999 !
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7139/7803034690_43409df116.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803034690/)
26 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803034690/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8428/7803034436_ddd0c192f5_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803034436/)
27 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7803034436/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
ed at my folk's house 1am,of course we needed a feed
Dialling 999 for assistance can be one of the toughest decisions you'll ever make in the Mountains but rest assured it can and does save lives. Prompt decisive action can get you the help you need preventing a situation getting unnecessarily worse and ensuring the best possible outcome for all involved. Mountain Rescue Teams and ourselves in particular would never criticise someone for requesting assistance when in any doubt whatsoever, on their part or on the part of someone else. We would like to say 'Well Done' to those who do take such action to call. Dial 999 and ask for the 'MOURNE MOUNTAIN RESCUE TEAM', on call 24/7
taken from the MMRT facebook
I spoke to the operator detailing our grid reference,& our concerns,minutes later we received a call from the MMRT ,we again pasted on all our details & concerns,after again giving a fresh grid reference we we told to sit tight & wait for help,the weather now was very severe with lashing rain & gale force winds,its strange how quickly the body temperature drops when you’re not walking ,at this point I remembered how ‘Bear’raise’s his body temperature so I started star jumps,lol,anyway it really worked,after some time we seen a glare through the hill fog below us,it was he MMRT,& with a ‘whoosh’ two flares lit up the valley in front of us !
We watched as the team got closer, the whole time my mind thinking,”bet Liam’s on of the first guy’s up “ now reacing us I was somewhat delighted not to see his face!The first two runners to reach us messaged back to the rest of the team that we had been located & we both uninjured,next word’s I heard were, “alright john “ ahhh it was Liam & I would never live it down!Sorry mate but I was really gald to see you,but it seems when I slagged off it never stop’s !
We were instructed to put our wet gloves & hats back on as these would heat up as we walked back down,I was given a head torch & marty the team leader asked me to start descenting with two MMRT members,reaching the bottom of the Saddle we were faced with a swollen stream crossing which needed some careful footing to cross,with Ed behind with other team members I ventured along the trek with the raging Glen river beside me,reaching the forest trek I rested in the landrover
Chatting with some friendly team members,soon after Ed arrived & we drove along the road to awaiting car at Donard park.
I’d just like to say that you very much to the Mourne rescue team,sixteen members came out last night in storm conditions to help us,they braved dangerous waters & gale force winds to help guide us off the mountain safety!
In reflection I stand by my decision,I had a judgement to make,not only for myself but for the safety of us both,with the loss of our torches & the swollen rivers descending would have been very dangerous,yes mistakes we’re made we could have joined Rusty down the Carricklittle trek or turned left onto the Brandy pad towards the easier choice Hare’s Gap & the Trassey trek, hindsight is a wonderful thing,it’s easy to sit behind a computer or in an armchair thinking about what should have been done or what you would have done !
At 6.30 am yesterday morning the forecast was hill fog,with the threat of heavy showers towards the evening,not unlike any other day I’ve spent in the hills,yesterdays weather was the most extreme I’ve ever experienced.
Again many thanks to the brave Men & Women in the MMRT.
here's some footage earlier in the day
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Sorry had to bail early again boys: although as luck would have it I seemed to have left at an opportune moment ::) Part of me wishes I had of been there for the adventure of the rescue part.
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Sobering stuff and plenty for us all to think about. Problems can quickly stack up in the mountains. Makes you think.
Glad you made the right decision and you made it back safe. Will watch your video now too.
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thanks for that Shan Doan,but i still feel very embarrassed about the whole thing ::) was it the right choice, got some comfort from the message on MMRT facebook page.
Mourne Mountain Rescue Team
20 hours ago
Dialling 999 for assistance can be one of the toughest decisions you'll ever make in the Mountains but rest assured it can and does save lives. Prompt decisive action can get you the help you need preventing a situation getting unnecessarily worse and ensuring the best possible outcome for all involved. Mountain Rescue Teams and ourselves in particular would never criticise someone for requesting assistance when in any doubt whatsoever, on their part or on the part of someone else. We would like to say 'Well Done' to those who do take such action to call. Dial 999 and ask for the 'MOURNE MOUNTAIN RESCUE TEAM', on call 24/7
also i should have been carrying an emergency bothy,one of the MMRT works for LIFE & has offered a discount to any NI-WILD members,here the link
http://www.lifesystems.co.uk/
many thanks again to Liam & the whole MMRT for helping us :o :o i think i'am in for some SH1T over this one,also note to self,make sure i've Liam on -speed dial ;D
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I understand where you're coming from mate.
In my opinion, I think your post was helpful. Experienced walkers/climbers can head out with the right gear and a good knowledge of the area but things can still snowball. So this kind of thing sobers us all up.
You can't really say what might have happened if you hadn't made that call. Things could have turned a lot worse, but you didn't take that chance. Better safe than sorry, etc.
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sorry i seem to have totally missed part of this thread john .what happened
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Anybody can find themselves in a sticky situation - its what they do from that point on decides the outcome.
Good call
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Hey Mourneman, glad to see you are ok. but could I surggest you put the original post back on and just explain how you cam e to call MRT.
The reason I ask this is not to embarras you but to show other how easy iot is to find yourself in that situation. I am a strong beliver that you should learn by the mistakes of others as you dont have time to learn them all yourself.
Thanks
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Totally understand how you might find it personally embarrassing but it's totally not, could have happened to any one of us and anyone who's spent any decent time in the Mournes knows how quickly things can change. Definitely better safe than sorry, the gutsy decision is getting some help, not risking lives feeling you have to prove something!
Me and Dowser had a night round the fire in Donard Wood a while back. At 1am we were sitting around the fire in baselayers on a still clear night, by 11am the next morning this was the Glen River Path (not the river, the path that runs through the forest). We were ankle deep all the way down, was completely nuts.
(http://i.imgur.com/0ePq9.jpg)
sorry folks,removed thread body ??? just too embarrassing
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Sorry to hear about your incident but I think you should put it back up as a lot of people might learn form it. Not knowing what happened, I hope all is well after it and that there are no injuries. You shou;dn't be embarrassed. All the best.
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Here is a rescue that i was involved with in Jan 2011. One of the guys who was not properly dressed for the hills, hurt his ankle and MMRT were called and the Helicpoter was also called in but they could not winch a man down because of the conditions.
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thread back in place :o
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Well written, Mourneman. It was an experience, I am sure. Good call to ring them. Glad everyone got down safely.
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A few months ago I was up on Binnian when the wind was really fierce, I basically crawled the whole way from the summit to the col with Lamagan. Since then I have thought about it wondering if that was really necessary, or how embarrassed I may have felt if I had met someone walking towards me.
But the bottom line is that it is about the decisions you make at the time and in the circumstances. I felt vulnerable at the time and did wonder if I was going to make it down on my own. I made the right decision to protect myself.
Don't think about it too much now Mourneman, you are an experienced walker and you made a rational decision based on the conditions you were encountering.
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It was real bad a freind an i stayd on the top of the north tor on fri night and holly good s-@t it was horendous we actually tied the tent to the wall cuz it was like a parachute , but sat made up for it we watched the silvery grey clouds slide down the mountains to an absolute scorcher of a day we then headed to cove cave via devils coachroad an camped sat in annalong vally .
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I am not one who goes on hindsight, though Mourneman, think of the other. If you hadn't have dialed for assistance how bad could it have been? A search and rescue operation, maybe even worse?
I am sure many of us look upon you as experienced (which I definitely do myself - well jealous that you get the opportunity multiple times a week to travel in the Mournes) therefore it shows us that it is okay when the going gets tough and serious to ask for a little help.
Think of it this way, if you didn't post this up a few members could be up there at the second in difficulty and risking their own lives without realising that phoning for assistance is a good thing rather than something that feels pride pricking.
But you have definitely turned my views around - even the most experienced can find themselves in trouble, and I am glad that you have shown the community that asking for help is okay.
Though do not let this be a set back to you, rather than a learning experience and get back out there. The last thing I want to to hear is that you are stopping your weekly blogs.
Karma to you for doing the right thing and that everything is okay.
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As you've gathered I was there that night, weather was indeed wild, although by the time i got into the hills the torrential rain had passed and i was lower down so had some shelter from the wind, but i still got soaked through my goretex/event to the skin. The little streams i had bounced over many times before were now knee deep, and the there was the glen river to pass, there was approx 9 inches of water over the stepping stones, certainly passable with care, but only if you had a good torch, and John had lost his. I reckon anyone who tried to cross that in the dark (assuming they could make it that far down those steep steps) would never have been able to see the stepping stones and would have ended at least waist deep in fast flowing cold water, not a place you want to be! John made the right call (it was the rescue teams decision to go out, not Johns), the risk of things going very wrong was high, and that would have resulted in a prolonged search in awful conditions, and if not found in time a great risk of severe hypothermia (which leads to death!).
John started out the day well with the right intentions and the right gear, a combination of things went wrong, we cannot plan for every occurence (if we did we would bring a tent on every trip). An unfortunate set of occurences led to him being late and losing his torch. He was able to provide an accurate location, he had his whistle and used it effectively (it great to hear that whistle when you are searching) and this resulted in a speedy rescue, no helicopters where needed (not that they would have flown that night anyway!), so well done John on ensuring you and your buddy got home safe and not letting pride prevent you doing the right thing (probably the downfall of many a mountaineer) and i'm very happy to have been able to help you in your hour of need :) )
Now you know i like to take a few pictures, but that night was so bad the camera was only briefly taken out twice, and these were the best shots i could get.
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd496/landyliam/2012/P1210103Small.jpg)
the flare going off
(http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd496/landyliam/2012/P1210104Small.jpg)
crossing the glen river, easy when you have a big torch, i had the led lenser x21 xtreme (1000 lumens!!)
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(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8428/7803034436_ddd0c192f5_c.jpg)
ed at my folk's house 1am,of course we needed a feed
worth noting that "top of the town" chippy in Newcastle is opened til 2.30am ;)
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A good call was made by John and a good job was made by MMRT. Everyone is a winner so, John, we hope to see you on the hills and also read about them. All the best.
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Thank's very much for you're support everyone,sometimes the right thing to do is not always the easiest ! I'am heading back into the Mourne's tomorrow,only this time i'am bringing my very own MMRT member Liam ::) ;D
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Good write up John. A real wake-up call/reminder to all of us (and an example to tell any friends we are introducing to the hills), especially when I'm travelling light or packing my bag in a hurry. I'm thinking how often recently I've forgotten my hat and gloves, or a spare set of batteries for the head-torch. Would just take me to get a cramp and be delayed to be in the same situation. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you are safe... now get back out there :D
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Thank's very much for you're support everyone,sometimes the right thing to do is not always the easiest ! I'am heading back into the Mourne's tomorrow,only this time i'am bringing my very own MMRT member Liam ::) ;D
remember i'm still in training and not much use without the team, and did you spot the heavy rain warning for tomorrow :o could be your groundhog day 8) i'm bringing 3 torches, bothy bag & gpsr ;)
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As someone who is new to walking in the Mournes having only been to the summit of Donard and Commedagh once each, this has been a real eye opener for me and i am glad you shared the experience on this forum. The 2 times i have been up there the sun has been out most of the way up and down and i hadn't given much thought to how badly wrong things can go. Thankyou and glad to hear you got out of the situation ok.
Phil
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Glad you are safe MM, Don't let your bad experience get the better of you.. Life always puts up challenges for us, it would be boring if it didn't. It is certainly a learning curve for us all..
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Im glad that you all got down ok guys, it could happen and still can to any of us NI wilders.
All you need to do now is write a book about it and youl be minted. :)
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t could happen and still can to any of us NI wilders.
so who will be next 8) probably me :o
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t could happen and still can to any of us NI wilders.
so who will be next 8) probably me :o
We'll I sorta own you one ::)
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This is an example of inexperience, poor planning and just basically not being prepared.
I see it everytime I am up there.
Sorry, I think I am the only one here prepared to criticise. Personally, I think you just got a little to confident and complacency set in.
I am very happy you got down and were ok. Lesson learned.
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This is an example of inexperience, poor planning and just basically not being prepared.
I see it everytime I am up there.
Sorry, I think I am the only one here prepared to criticise. Personally, I think you just got a little to confident and complacency set in.
I am very happy you got down and were ok. Lesson learned.
Without getting into a massive debate with you Dean, I gotta disagree with you on this one.
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This is an example of inexperience, poor planning and just basically not being prepared.
I see it everytime I am up there.
Sorry, I think I am the only one here prepared to criticise. Personally, I think you just got a little to confident and complacency set in.
I am very happy you got down and were ok. Lesson learned.
I don't feel you are prepared (or placed) to criticise Dean, because put simply - you weren't there.
Inclined to criticise might be better phrasing.
I have no problem with criticism, when it's warranted - but given that we were already heading back when the bad weather moved in, I don't see how overconfidence and complacency enters into it. It's not like we sat around and watched the weather get worse, while it did significantly slow our progress.
Regarding the lost head torches, they were _probably_ lost during the crossing of the kilkeel river, which was quite a jump, but I'm not sure. On any other day the loss would have been a lot less painful, but unfortunately they were lost on a day where they were very much needed.
If anyone can put their hand up and tell me they have never lost a piece of gear in the hills and never will - and / or that they always carry a spare headtorch separate to their main one, even on day trips - Sure - I'll accept that the loss of the torch was inexperience rather than ill timed misfortune.
The rivers were quite badly swollen - even a member of the MMRT slipped while crossing - and would have fell in were it not for John behind them. Were we indeed complacent, we might have sauntered down in the dark and tried to cross the river on our own, which could well have added injury to the situation the MMRT were presented with - or worse.
I'll accept we were not fully prepared with a bothy shelter, which would have resolved the situation. I now have one and will take it on future trips. To the best of my knowledge however, it's not just inexperienced or arrogant walkers who head out for a day trip without one. (Things started to turn at around 5PM IIRC, 3.5hrs before sunset - more than enough time to get back were it not for the severe inclement weather which presented itself when we were already well underway)
To put it frankly, the only people I'd be prepared to accept a telling off from regarding this are John and the MMRT.
If you want to indulge in some posturing on a scenario you weren't even involved in you're entitled to your opinion, but equally I'm entitled to tell you to get bent.
A
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Get bent? No need to be rude.
If that's your attitude, no wonder you got into trouble. Must be the know it all type.
Tempted to say more, but reckon you ain't worth the effort. You were not prepared, simple.
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This is an example of inexperience, poor planning and just basically not being prepared.
I see it everytime I am up there.
Sorry, I think I am the only one here prepared to criticise. Personally, I think you just got a little to confident and complacency set in.
I am very happy you got down and were ok. Lesson learned.
Without getting into a massive debate with you Dean, I gotta disagree with you on this one.
That's fine. No problem all. I was not expecting anyone to agree.
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Get bent? No need to be rude.
If that's your attitude, no wonder you got into trouble. Must be the know it all type.
Tempted to say more, but reckon you ain't worth the effort. You were not prepared, simple.
The know it all type would have never phoned mountain rescue.
Nobody is 100% prepared 100% of the time. I may have a quick poll to ask how many members leave home with a spare headtorch and a bothy bag on every single trip - in order to quantify that a little.
It's easy to look back with hindsight on an event and throw off the cuff criticism, it's quite another dealing with the situation at the time.
John didn't have to post this thread, it's here to help others realise that accidents and emergency scenarios happen - if he were the type to think he's always prepared he might let his ego get in the way and never post about his experiences.
I truly hope you never find yourself in an emergency situation where you need help from others, because the last thing someone needs after such a thing is a scolding from someone who wants to stroke their ego a little. Yet - there's always one!
A.
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Just to throw a little more fuel on the fire... :P Dean didnt mention headtorches... I did.
I asked before John deleted his post content why you had his headtorch. I was curious, now Im intrigued :-\
Nothing inflammatory about it TypoOn - It's a legitimate question - and constructive too.
When it started to rain heavy everything from the top pouch of each of our bags which could get soaked was transferred to a drybag I brought, I had the only spare one and we were in a hurry to keep moving.
There probably were better ways of doing it, but then hindsight and all
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Get bent? No need to be rude.
If that's your attitude, no wonder you got into trouble. Must be the know it all type.
Tempted to say more, but reckon you ain't worth the effort. You were not prepared, simple.
The know it all type would have never phoned mountain rescue.
Nobody is 100% prepared 100% of the time. I may have a quick poll to ask how many members leave home with a spare headtorch and a bothy bag on every single trip - in order to quantify that a little.
It's easy to look back with hindsight on an event and throw off the cuff criticism, it's quite another dealing with the situation at the time.
John didn't have to post this thread, it's here to help others realise that accidents and emergency scenarios happen - if he were the type to think he's always prepared he might let his ego get in the way and never post about his experiences.
I truly hope you never find yourself in an emergency situation where you need help from others, because the last thing someone needs after such a thing is a scolding from someone who wants to stroke their ego a little. Yet - there's always one!
A.
I am stroking my ego lol. I am not into scolding. You are missing the point. You didn't even have the basics. Something I am proud to admit I always carry. not here slagging but if you want make it personal but telling to get bent, then maybe you need to grow up.
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Just to lighten the mood..
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Hi Dean,mate I've never met you before so I'll reserve judgement on your experience or knowledge,anyway who I'am I to past judgement on you,i'am like most anybody on the Forum,someone who just has a great love of the outdoors. I'am a strong believer that everyone has a skill to past on & equally needs to be always seeking improvement on their knowledge base.I'am only in NI-WILD for about a year & in that time I've gained a wealth of knowledge from its many experienced members,that's the beauty of this forum ! In regard to last Thursday I stand by my desicion,given the same situation I would do the same,I 'll try to explain this further,in the many years I been walking I've met all types of people,there are those who have nothing to learn & always assume to know everything,they're usually males playing the alpha male,leading & pushing the group with little regard to anybody other that themselves.I've always regarded the mountains as almost a spiritual place for me,somewhere that requires respect & understanding,last Thursday the weather closed in within minutes,i used my best judgement based on failing light & terrible weather conditions,pride can be a very dangerous piece of kit to carry with,you'll find it right next to the mass cards!Sometimes the hardest desicions are not always the easiest one,yes I stand to face criticism,& rightly so,we should have carried extra torches,but faced with risking the life of a close friend & that of my own,well I'll take that on the chin no problem.given that I know Ed & have shared many an adventure with him I think that allows me to past some judgement,I first met Ed on the ICU trek,we're he give up his free time & hard earned cash to help other,secondly he's a very easy going chap & a delight to spent time with,he's always in the thirst for knowledge & equally able to past it on,I remember showing Ed some basic Nav skills on Binnian,he's a real natural !moreover faced with the same situation again I couldn't think of a better more levelled headed guy I'd face it with.
To round up I hope anybody reading this makes the right desicion if they are faced with a with the same danger,stay safe guys!
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I am stroking my ego lol. I am not into scolding. You are missing the point. You didn't even have the basics. Something I am proud to admit I always carry. not here slagging but if you want make it personal but telling to get bent, then maybe you need to grow up.
We had head torches, they were lost.
We didn't have shelter, but it was a day trip which got unexpectedly prolonged by inclement weather.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in this group who has left for the hills without carrying a bothy bag or tent - it does happen, and I wouldn't take it upon myself to lord over any of those people in idle posturing.
Your comment was non-constructive and unnecessary.
I know no one else who would refer to John as wholly inexperienced, or who would interpret our actions as overconfident or rash. Perhaps the photos of us enjoying ourselves earlier in the day, before the weather rolled in - falsely led you to believe we were overconfident or flippant, but an overconfident person doesn't phone for help, they saunter on thinking they can handle it and wind up getting hurt.
Regarding the "get bent" - and its personal nature - I apologise for the insult, but it's easy to see how your remark might inflame or insult - given its context.
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Just to lighten the mood..
Rofl... Hilarious :D
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Hi, Mourneman, never met you either. Unlike you, I made my judgement by saying you were not prepared. This was not a personal attack on anyone. My first post said that this was a perfect example of not being prepared. You lose your torch, cant move, then if you had prepared, options may have been available. Obviously some are taking it personal. I never said it was wrong to phone for help. I certainly do not think I know everything. I like yourself, love the area and respect the area.
Again, I never said it was wrong to phone.
I suspect 'Ed' is the person who told me to get 'bent'.
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I am stroking my ego lol. I am not into scolding. You are missing the point. You didn't even have the basics. Something I am proud to admit I always carry. not here slagging but if you want make it personal but telling to get bent, then maybe you need to grow up.
We had head torches, they were lost.
We didn't have shelter, but it was a day trip which got unexpectedly prolonged by inclement weather.
I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one in this group who has left for the hills without carrying a bothy bag or tent - it does happen, and I wouldn't take it upon myself to lord over any of those people in idle posturing.
Your comment was non-constructive and unnecessary.
I know no one else who would refer to John as wholly inexperienced, or who would interpret our actions as overconfident or rash. Perhaps the photos of us enjoying ourselves earlier in the day, before the weather rolled in - falsely led you to believe we were overconfident or flippant, but an overconfident person doesn't phone for help, they saunter on thinking they can handle it and wind up getting hurt.
Regarding the "get bent" - and its personal nature - I apologise for the insult, but it's easy to see how your remark might inflame or insult - given its context.
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My comment was fine. You just took it the wrong way. I fully accept your apology. Thank you.
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Just to lighten the mood..
Rofl... Hilarious :D
I thought so too..
BTW Mourneman and Dean you have met, t'was the night we camped at Fofanny.. MM brought Mountain Goat to the camp..
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My comment was fine. You just took it the wrong way. I fully accept your apology. Thank you.
I apologise only for the insult, the remainder of my posts stand.
The fact that a spare torch would have got us out of there was the first thing we realised when we noticed the bag was missing. It's obvious, like pointing out the sky is blue. If you had a head torch, you wouldn't not have a head torch. We get that.
Your post wasn't informative or constructive,it brought nothing new to the thread other than condescension. it was a smug chance to put someone down and engage in a touch of enjoyable posturing.
It had the air of "nobody's kicked them in the nads yet - allow me"
We all know a spare head torch would have helped, but when you've been through something like that, pointless judgement certainly doesn't help, except maybe the ego of the man dishing it out.
If anyone else gets into a tight spot, I hope they aren't put off mentioning it here as a result of this thread, the majority of this forum are supportive and understanding.
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Think yas shud just meet for a fair dig
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I'am starting to think Dean's right,but i don't think i can carry any more kit
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8283/7839785116_473b6083d0_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7839785116/)
229904_10150860105271150_388475798_n (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7839785116/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
in fact i know he's right,i've even started to cook my own hand
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8425/7839784914_9804921913.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7839784914/)
428530_485972294750027_1844465796_n (http://www.flickr.com/photos/83986410@N07/7839784914/) by jimmysurg (http://www.flickr.com/people/83986410@N07/), on Flickr
listen guy's i'am to fat in the ass & to long in the tooth to get upset about who say's what,but here's the think i'am not afraid to admit to making a fault & for that i'am happy,ps i've strapped the car-lamp to my head for the next day out ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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(http://i.imgur.com/l8To0.jpg)
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On a final note..
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On a final note..
The forum's SMTP server has been load tested if nothing else ;-)
All in all pretty responsive
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I think this should be our Theme tune..
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My comment was fine. You just took it the wrong way. I fully accept your apology. Thank you.
I apologise only for the insult, the remainder of my posts stand.
The fact that a spare torch would have got us out of there was the first thing we realised when we noticed the bag was missing. It's obvious, like pointing out the sky is blue. If you had a head torch, you wouldn't not have a head torch. We get that.
Your post wasn't informative or constructive,it brought nothing new to the thread other than condescension. it was a smug chance to put someone down and engage in a touch of enjoyable posturing.
It had the air of "nobody's kicked them in the nads yet - allow me"
We all know a spare head torch would have helped, but when you've been through something like that, pointless judgement certainly doesn't help, except maybe the ego of the man dishing it out.
If anyone else gets into a tight spot, I hope they aren't put off mentioning it here as a result of this thread, the majority of this forum are supportive and understanding.
A.
Are you carrying anything extra in your pack after this experience?
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And here I am taking the time point something out, but I'm being unhelpful.
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And another..
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Are you carrying anything extra in your pack after this experience?
The first thing I did when I woke the next morning was to buy a replacement head torch, a spare hand torch - and a 2 man bothy shelter.
My objection didn't stem from me thinking we had nothing to learn, or change. My reaction arose from the thought that it was a pretty safe assumption our experience had already taught us to carry a spare - and that even if you somehow believed otherwise - your post might have mentioned the torch, or been more specific than general mentions of unpreparedness, or overconfidence.
Given that it seemed clear to me anyone would expect we knew where we went wrong - the only motivation I saw for the post was a good old fashioned dig - or perhaps a little of "that wouldn't happen to me".
If this isn't the case - and you genuinely believed that our experience that night wouldn't have taught us to carry spare torches - it would appear we have little to be arguing about.
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I was not arguing. You should be pleased that someone will learn from your mistakes, not getting your back up.
So, your sorted now. I could go further and ask what would have happened if you couldn't have contacted the rescue. But your only going to take that the wrong way and say I'm being unhelpful.
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...pride can be a very dangerous piece of kit...
Wise words.
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I was not arguing. You should be pleased that someone will learn from your mistakes, not getting your back up.
So, your sorted now. I could go further and ask what would have happened if you couldn't have contacted the rescue. But your only going to take that the wrong way and say I'm being unhelpful.
Would others not have learned of it without your comment?
Did your comment teach anyone anything new?
As regards contacting rescue, that's an area in which I had some redundancy, with a fully charged nokia brick phone to hand, should my smartphone fail. In the event of a lack of signal at the saddle (where there usually is signal) I might have walked around a little to try and pick some up. The brick phone normally locks on stronger though.
Another thing to note is that people rarely contact mountain rescue without necessity - I'd imagine most MMRT callers response to that question would be "I'd have been screwed". I probably would have been.
I had briefly considered going up Commedagh tight to the wall and trying to take shelter in the summit shelter - but it still would have been touch and go - and I can't speculate beyond that.
A
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I think I made my points quite clear. It's a good example.
So, you thought about getting shelter, but made a decision, not to go for it.
Phones are not reliable, its wet, pissing it down. Your crossing rivers. If your phone didn't work would you have made the shelter.?
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I think I made my points quite clear. It's a good example.
So, you thought about getting shelter, but made a decision, not to go for it.
Phones are not reliable, its wet, pissing it down. Your crossing rivers. If your phone didn't work would you have made the shelter.?
Yes, while the commedagh tower would have sheltered me from the rain - it would have provided little heat, and I was already quite cold and exhausted. A stone shelter without a sleeping system might have been dangerously cold for an exhausted individual, and by the time I'd figure out it wasn't for me, I mightn't be capable of securing help.
I may have made the shelter, I may have not. No idea.
Your recent posts give the impression of an intent to educate, so I'll throw my two earlier questions back in here.
In reference to your original post:
This is an example of inexperience, poor planning and just basically not being prepared.
I see it everytime I am up there.
Sorry, I think I am the only one here prepared to criticise. Personally, I think you just got a little to confident and complacency set in.
I am very happy you got down and were ok. Lesson learned.
Do you feel that without the above - others wouldn't have learned from our account of our experience
Do you feel the above has taught anyone anything new?
I honestly think no on both counts, but if you seriously believe the above was somehow educational or helpful - and not a dig as it appears - then we can agree to disagree?
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I am not educating. There are great people that can, I am not one if them.
In my initial post I was actually being quite positive and giving you some credit by saying I thought that you may have got to confident and complacent.
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I'm not going to pass any judgement on MourneMan & Aragorn, because I can't say that I would have done anything different in the situation they found themselves in. And yes I have worded that sentence carefully because they could do nothing about the weather and I don't think a spare headlight would have enabled them to get out of the situation. The problem I took from the post was the crossing of flooded rivers and torrents, not the lack of light to see them.
I also think that even with a bothy shelter they still needed assistance. Shelter or not, wet clothes eventually lead to hypothermia.
Dean, I'm not sure if you were right to criticize the chaps on their actions, you may disagree but I honestly couldn't care less. I think in a situation like that no matter who it involves you should advise not criticize.
Instead of this
Sorry, I think I am the only one here prepared to criticise. Personally, I think you just got a little to confident and complacency set in.
I feel you should have given advice like this
Glad to see you got out unharmed guys, that was wild weather. I'm sure you have learnt a few lessons from it. I would advise buying a spare head-torch or bothy bag to carry with you in case a freak situation like this ever catches you out again. Lots of love from your best friend forever Dean1870
There's my input, anyone want to add to or have a dig at it?
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For anyone who knows me knows I'm quiet laid back.
I can understand how people get into trouble on the hills but it is down the 7 p's at the end of the day which I think where dean is coming from.
The one thing I don't understand is why did you not have you own torch or some sort of spare? I have seen you gear set up and you look to have a good one which is why I ask.
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For anyone who knows me knows I'm quiet laid back.
I can understand how people get into trouble on the hills but it is down the 7 p's at the end of the day which I think where dean is coming from.
The one thing I don't understand is why did you not have you own torch or some sort of spare? I have seen you gear set up and you look to have a good one which is why I ask.
We each had our own but unfortunately I stashed them both (amongst some other things) in the same drybag to protect them from the downpour - the drybag was at some point lost. Probably would have been better to keep them both separate, maybe one in someones coat rather than the drybag, but it wasn't something I considered in the rush to batten down the hatches for the rain.
To use IT vernacular two issues I considered in the day that followed were redundancy and points of failure :) The drybag was definitely a SPF.
A.
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Osin who ever you are, why say you honestly don't care. That's quite a sad thing to say. You dont care about opinions. How do you get through life having that attitude.
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Ok. Here goes. You messed up. It worked out ok. Now, listen, you put other people's lives at risk. You were not prepared. Now, you phone for rescue, rescue get hurt, what you going to say to their family. Now, grow up. So up your own importance its annoying.
Rescue will say I'm out of line here.
Messing around losing stuff, not got the kit. Yet, I'm the time waster here, not being positive. Being in the wrong for criticizing. Catch a grip. I bust my back
Carrying stuff I hope I won't need. No one is perfect, but everyone can improve.
You got the steaks, got the gas got it all. You ain't got something to keep you safe for a night in bad weather.
You take offence, at least you have listened.
Parting words to those reading this thread that you are so concerned about,
Be prepared
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Now... let it go.. both involved are feeling bad enough. They made the right decision to make the call! They're not dead, so all is good. Enough!
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Now... let it go.. both involved are feeling bad enough. They made the right decision to make the call! They're not dead, so all is good. Enough!
Here here.... I am amazed at how this thread has gone.....
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Dean, I think I can say what everyone is thinking about your comments, your being a bit of a arsehole.
I don't see why your criticizing two of our members when they both already know that they shouldn't have lost their torches, but it happened.
And now your trying to make them feel guilt by saying things like "what are you going to say to their family", out of order, its unnecessary and unwanted.
You are obviously so much better than us all because you have never done wrong. We should all aspire to be like Dean. (Note the sarcasm please)
I think the best thing you could do is to not comment anymore and go away.
Thanks
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I'm pretty dissapointed this thread soured a little. One of the reasons I quite like Wild NI is the fact that it dosen't desintegrate into squabbling like other forums.
I defend anyone's right to go anywhere and do whatever outdoor activity if they believe it's within their capabilities. This is the spirit of adventure. By all means we can educate people, tell them of the risks and point them in the right direction. We can disagree with them and tell them that it may be dangerous: but ultimately if they want to explore the outdoors then fair play to them. Some of the best adventures I've ever had have been hairy, dangerous and the best ones definately had big elements of risk. I'm sure many of us started out stumbling about the outdoors in jeans with no fieldcraft whatsoever.
I know I learned from positive encouragement and enthusiasm from those more experienced. I was never belittled but instead shown more effective ways of operating in a positive manner. This is what made it all enjoyable and continued to make our peculiar hobbies fun.
Playing the blame game dosen't help anyone. It dosen't make anyone sound important or clever. And it dosen't add inches to your "walking pole".
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To quote Kipling, " If you can keep calm when everybody else is panicking and blaming other people then... (you'll be a man, my son)" ,dean i'am only going to say this,you'll never share a sunrise or a pitch with me climbing, a man that has nothing to learn has nothing to loose,& is a danger to everyone,i've seen it all mucker,ran the sixty second distance & met many a folk along the way,good night folk
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I'm an asshole now. Earlier I was bent.
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Another insult.
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I think everyone's said what they've needed to say. Let's let go of this topic. It's not a great example to new members of what Wild NI is really about! Bickering is beneath us.... We're Wild NI! ;D
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actually we' NI-wild ,lol anyway Rusty we going hiking this week,i'll get chatting to you on Friday,there's plans for a wee Luke's mountain camp coming up,with our very own MMRT Liam
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To quote Kipling, " If you can keep calm when everybody else is panicking and blaming other people then... (you'll be a man, my son)" ,dean i'am only going to say this,you'll never share a sunrise or a pitch with me climbing, a man that has nothing to learn has nothing to loose,& is a danger to everyone,i've seen it all mucker,ran the sixty second distance & met many a folk along the way,good night folk
I will never share a sunrise or a camp with you? Not a friendly kind of thing to say. Maybe I have picked this up wrong. Maybe its a threat to my wellbeing. I do feel threatened now. What would happen if I where in the same area?
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Just thinking of the implications here. This is an issue.
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What kind of person in a right state of mind would think that was a threat? I was referring to the fact that I would never want to share your company....not a threat...,chill out lad ;D,funny but i've never had a thread like this before,truth be known it's a wee bit trailer park !
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ENOUGH!!!!!!!