Northern Ireland Outdoors Forum - Hiking, camping and more

General => General Chat => Topic started by: sjh1 on February 21, 2012

Title: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: sjh1 on February 21, 2012
First a few personal thoughts... I class "wilderness" as places where natural processes are allowed to occur without human interference. Thus there are some old hedgerows and patches of waste ground that I would class as pretty wild. I particularly like to see natural regeneration of self-seeded native trees. I also like places with a lot of wildlife, particularly predatory species as there's something untamed about them.

Weather and accessibility aside some of our uplands aren't very wild in my opinion. In parts agriculture has just destroyed them; vegetation removed and resown with non-native grasses, overgrazed by sheep, stripped for turf or planted with conifers.

Anyway I'm not sure about my personal wildest spot so would like to hear some ideas! So where does everybody think is the wildest spot in Ulster? (include Donegal, Cavan, Monaghan if you like but be as specific as possible, no point in just saying 'the Mournes').

Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: gardener on February 21, 2012
http://3tree.co.uk/ian/post.php?aubaction=showfull&id=1329168061&archive&start_from&ucat=1&

looks like a good spot, I have yet to go but its on the list, hope the link works
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: gardener on February 21, 2012
Glenveagh National Park on Facebook some beautiful photos posted recently, last link didn't seem to Work
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: beau on February 21, 2012
Rostrevor oakwood nature reserve mature natural woodland covering 41 acres.It also contains ash,hazel,holly and wildcherry.Birds include blackcaps,willow warblers,chiff chaffs,jays and buzzards.Red squirrel,foxs and rumour has it pine martens ...
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Samm on February 21, 2012
I'll be looking at the replies to this with some interest.  Always intriguing to see what people regard as wild.  I work in finding and protecting all the best bits of Northern Ireland for their nature conservation value, so have been on pretty much all of the most naturally (nothing is natural, it's all semi-natural) wild places we have.  I'm lucky enough to get to see all the privately owned bits that people aren't normally allowed on.  We have truly amazing places in this country, from woodlands to grasslands, bogs, sand dunes, wetlands.....  Looking forward to what people suggest.  I don't know that I could name just one!  I'd have to name hundreds of places, for hundreds of different reasons!

And beau, it's not a rumour, there are pine martens there!
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: mregan on February 21, 2012
Samm what's your thoughts on the Golf Course plan for north coast?
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Mourneman on February 21, 2012
I'll be looking at the replies to this with some interest.  Always intriguing to see what people regard as wild.  I work in finding and protecting all the best bits of Northern Ireland for their nature conservation value, so have been on pretty much all of the most naturally (nothing is natural, it's all semi-natural) wild places we have.  I'm lucky enough to get to see all the privately owned bits that people aren't normally allowed on.  We have truly amazing places in this country, from woodlands to grasslands, bogs, sand dunes, wetlands.....  Looking forward to what people suggest.  I don't know that I could name just one!  I'd have to name hundreds of places, for hundreds of different reasons!

And beau, it's not a rumour, there are pine martens there!
not sure if this is a pine martin,came across this creature while out fishing

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7199/6918461517_e168de41c9_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70169151@N05/6918461517/)
family photos 885 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70169151@N05/6918461517/) by shannaghan (http://www.flickr.com/people/70169151@N05/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: gardener on February 21, 2012
black squirrel maybe?
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Samm on February 21, 2012
Samm what's your thoughts on the Golf Course plan for north coast?

I think one of the problems with the environmental side of things is that there tends to be a bit of a Fr Ted type response of 'down with that sort of thing', without knowing any detail of what they're talking about.  So, not having ever seen the plans and not knowing the area very well, I don't have any professional thoughts. 
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: sjh1 on February 21, 2012
Mourneman: creature looks like a mink to me (American mink, originally escapees or releases from fur farms but large wild population exists)

Gardener: accessed them Glenveagh photos from your link, have visited there once but will have to get up for a proper visit.

Will also have to check out Rostrevor oakwood.

Re. Giant's Causeway Golf Course I was actually going to mention it in my first post but thought better not to cos it could take us off on a tangent. But ... my thoughts on hearing the news today were that if it's just built on the farmland ('improved fields'), that some of the land surrounding the Causeway seems to be, it might actually improve habitats for wildlife/scenery e.g. bits of rough, tree planting etc. I think it's important to stress that much of our farmland really is a green desert as far as most wildlife is concerned. Also historically the Causeway was a lot more developed than it is today. If I recall correctly it had a tourist railway among other "attractions". But maybe a Causeway Golf Course thread should be started?
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Drongo on February 21, 2012
not sure if this is a pine martin,came across this creature while out fishing

Where were you fishing...?

Looks too bulky and black to me a pine marten, and the eye shine is usually a greenish tinge, the fact that this is more yellow/amber is pushing me to side more on mink...

The neck is usually yellowish brown and covers more area than the white stripe that appears in the pic...

However, the way it's holding it's tail, it could possibly be just a domestic cat
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: mregan on February 21, 2012
My perception of environmentalists have changed in one reply. For the better I might ad thanks Samm.

Sorry for the thread hijack btw.

Central Sperrins are pretty wild!
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Samm on February 21, 2012
I think I'd vote for mink too.  It can only be mink, pine marten or cat (I'm ruling out otter and stoat!).  Looks too long and squat to be a cat, the colouring seems more mink like than pine marten, plus you were around water which is more mink type habitat.  My only real issue is, although mink can climb, you wouldn't normally expect to see them up a tree, but sure I suppose it might just have been an adventurous mink!!

Where was the photo taken?
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Mourneman on February 21, 2012
Mink is the right answer( according to the local gamekeeper anyway) it was taken near Inch abbey ,river Quoile about 5 am,its hard to tell from that photo but it had very long claws which it used to climb the tree with,a wee bit scary as my dogs were barking at what i thought was a black bag,until it moved & started hissing :-\
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: whoRya on February 21, 2012
Someone mentioned about trees re-seeding themselves.  Not sure if that is the case here, but there are a few scattered ones in the area.  I thought it looked cool.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7054/6918731407_7119f8ff2c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/whorya/6918731407/)

On the topic, I think I get the feeling of wilderness when I can't see or hear a road.  I love the feeling of needing to take gear with you to 'survive' the environment in which you are going to.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Rumblebum on February 21, 2012
Wildest place in NI?

Its definately got to be the Next boxing day sale!!

Enter that place at your own peril,  i once saw a 50 year old woman use a clothes hanger like a set a nung chucks!!
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Samm on February 21, 2012
Yeah, it's odd to think that most of the Mournes is below what would be the natural tree line.  If man had never mucked about with it, we wouldn't have the scenery that we associate with the Mournes and our other uplands.  We'd probably only get a good view when doing the 7 7's!  If we removed the sheep and the idiots who cause wildfires then the Mournes would look very different in time.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: sjh1 on February 21, 2012
Someone mentioned about trees re-seeding themselves.  Not sure if that is the case here, but there are a few scattered ones in the area.  I thought it looked cool.

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7054/6918731407_7119f8ff2c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/whorya/6918731407/)

On the topic, I think I get the feeling of wilderness when I can't see or hear a road.  I love the feeling of needing to take gear with you to 'survive' the environment in which you are going to.

Ahh, now if we got rid of the sheep ...

But as somebody pointed out to me recently there would still be hares and deer about to control growth slightly although I see very few of either in the Mournes. Back in the day (scientific term) there might have been natural wildfires too.

Samm, would the 'natural tree line' also depend on factors such as soil thickness, boggy conditions etc.? I've seen ledges half way down cliffs that I'm sure sheep can't get to but no trees present. Heather usually a lot healthier tho.

Edit: also interesting point about being out of sight of a road. ... and I also thought that mink looked strangely cat-like and strangely in a tree but will stick with my original answer.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: RedLeader on February 22, 2012
Wilderness for me is judged by distance from civilization / roads / lights. In Northern Ireland I suspect the inner Mournes are the most remote. For the North of Ireland as a landmass Donegal seems like it might have some epic wilds.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Oisín on February 22, 2012
Wilderness is a hard one to define isn't it? I feel that wilderness is something I would relate to lack of humans. Somewhere that we arent the dominant species and where we are reminded we are just another animal, that needs the same things as other animals to survive (food,water,sheleter etc)

I havent travelled an awful lot of the country, but I would have to say the Sperrin Mountains. I'm saying this because they are the place you would call the middle of nowhere, and if you got lost there you are pretty out of the way. I can only compare this to the Mournes where your in respect closer to more towns and more people.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: mregan on February 22, 2012
Donegal when I was growing up always seemed pretty remote but now it isn't. Houses popped up everywhere during the boom. Even in around glenveigh etc you are never too far away from a house now. Unless you walk around in circles ;-)
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: whoRya on February 22, 2012
Donegal when I was growing up always seemed pretty remote but now it isn't. Houses popped up everywhere during the boom. Even in around glenveigh etc you are never too far away from a house now. Unless you walk around in circles ;-)

Yes with Donegal, they seem to have built on all the best bits and dug-up the bits they can't build on.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: sjh1 on February 22, 2012
I appreciate the views about distance from civilisation and I love that feeling in the middle of the Mournes ... but as I said many parts of our uplands are so ruined by agriculture that they just can't count as wild for me.

Large sections of the Antrim Plateau have been dug up, reseeded with grass and then overstocked with sheep. Nothing but intensively-farmed green deserts, hardly a bird or wild animal in sight - I suppose wilderness of a sort.

I'd say the Mournes are more natural than either the Sperrins or Antrim hills, with less pressure from factory-farming; I would love to see the sheep removed from the Mournes & see what real wilderness would develop! Incidentally was the Mourne wall not originally built to keep sheep out? I don't think this ever happened in reality but would like to see it attempted!

Was in Annalong Wood there in late December, walked through the recently burnt sections. Good amount of gorse (whins) shoots already appearing. If this is allowed to regenerate naturally it'll provide a much better habitat for birds than the dark conifer plantations, might allow a few deciduous trees to get a foothold too. Look forward to seeing how it develops.

Never been to the Garron Plateau, anybody know what it's like? Seems quite remote, suspect a bit boggy and exposed for camping tho.

Note was originally thinking on a smaller scale, specific cliffs, rocky outcrops, small islands in lakes maybe? ... However I suppose large-scale landscapes are a big part of wilderness.

Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: DryBag on February 24, 2012
it's got to be the boulder field at the foot of fair head. it's inaccessible, inhospitable, and as far as I know it's the result of natural processes rather than human intervention.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Chris E on February 25, 2012
I can see why you think Fair Head. I was at Murlough Bay last w/end with the family and the NT has a Bothy  and a bungalow for rent down there, but no takers.
The road in is steep, windy, liable to subside and would be lethal in slippery conditions.
On the plus side buzzards, sheep, plenty of shags  (feathered type), cliffs, running water (off the cliffs), great views and lots of peace and quiet. ;)
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: sjh1 on February 25, 2012
it's got to be the boulder field at the foot of fair head. it's inaccessible, inhospitable, and as far as I know it's the result of natural processes rather than human intervention.

Good call! Have never been down there, will have to check it out. I have been down the road at Murlough Bay to the NT bothy but never got round actually beneath the cliffs. A plan for this summer!
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Hunter on February 26, 2012
mamore gap co donegal nice place.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: DominoYesMaybe on February 27, 2012
To the Fair Head Posters - I walk there regularly and if you fancy a dander from Marconi's cottage in the west along the old miner's track, up and over the cliffs and then down into Mirlough via Benvan in the east over the boulders and up the grey man's.. give me a shout it is a hell of a walk and surprisingly around 1km of ascent.

For me the Sperrin Challenge walk was prob the "Wildest" didnt see another soul all day and bugger all litter you do (in order)

Mullaghcarbatagh (517m)
Mullaghclogher (572m)
Mullaghasturakeen (581m)
Mullaghclogha (635m)
Mullaghdoo (568m)
Dart (619m)
Sawel (678m)
Meenard (626m)
Mullaghneany (627m)
Oughtmore (569m)
Crockbrack (526m)
Crockmore (478m)
It crosses 2 roads in 20 miles and they are wee piddly things

Fantastic walk if a bit boggy in places
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Wolf_Larson on February 27, 2012
The old path at the gaints cause way is real nice to walk, after you jump the gate where the tourists turn back, also can be dangerous due to land slides. I would never do it on a windy day as the drops of the narrow path are life threatening.

I have pictures on my facebook off the path, im callled wolf larson on facebook with a picture of a great white shark  :D



Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: mregan on February 28, 2012
I have done that path on the bike or what remained of it. Climbing up to hamiltons seat with a bike on my shoulder was a bit of a heart in mouth moment.  :o
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Wolf_Larson on February 28, 2012
I have done that path on the bike or what remained of it. Climbing up to hamiltons seat with a bike on my shoulder was a bit of a heart in mouth moment.  :o

Holy **** you have balls of steel downing that path on a bike, what is the hamiltons seat ?
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: mregan on February 28, 2012
At Benbane Head, Hamilton’s Seat (named after Rev. W. Hamilton, the first observer to describe accurately the origin of the basalts in 1786) is the highest point and offers superb views of the Causeway Coast and its geological successions in a series of bays and headlands.

There was a series of steps at the end of the path that lead up to the upper cliff path and I just assumed they were still there.  When I had got around that far I didnt want to turn all the way back so just climbed the scree.
Its not something I would do again.  Running out of my nine lives I think.  The worst was getting to the top then getting a bollicking from some man who said I was a bad influence on his children letting them see that. WHAT??  Dont let them watch what I was doing if it was an issue.

This image below was taken that day!
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PEXkjnWrvzU/S2ryRjNkiUI/AAAAAAAAAJw/tdjo3PwBdJM/s400/Giantscauseway1.JPG)
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: mregan on February 28, 2012
Quote
To the Fair Head Posters - I walk there regularly and if you fancy a dander from Marconi's cottage in the west along the old miner's track, up and over the cliffs and then down into Mirlough via Benvan in the east over the boulders and up the grey man's.. give me a shout it is a hell of a walk and surprisingly around 1km of ascent.

I love that walk.  Been meaning to get back and do it.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Wolf_Larson on February 28, 2012
I know the steps you mean, all my pictures are on facebook. I took my step son and his friend round it b4, does that make me bad ? lol. Ive done that walk 6-7 times now.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: mregan on February 28, 2012
It's getting a lot worse now with landslides but why would it make you bad! Kids need adventure and this idea of closing places off and mollycuddling needs to stop. Health and safety police need to be thrown of the cliff side. Do things in a safe manner and be aware of the risks and dangers!
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Wolf_Larson on February 28, 2012
Agreed about the kids, last time i was walking the path. It had two big land slides, i did not see them happen lucky enough. It is the best and nicest walk i have ever done, i hope one day i can find a better walk.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: andymcinroy on March 05, 2012
The wildest place in NI might well be the boulder field below Fair Head. It's like the land that time forgot down there. I have read in old books that in the past, people have gone walking in there and have never come back.  I can well believe it as there are some massive holes and caves between the boulders where a body would never be found.

The wildest place in Donegal (and perhaps the whole of Ireland) must be the stretch of coastline between Glencolumcille and Ardara.  There's at least 10km of walking there with no road or habitation. Perhaps there are sections of Co. Mayo that come close to this level of remoteness.

Cliffs under fair head.
(http://www.andymcinroy.com/images/ir456.jpg)

Slievetooey coast.
(http://www.andymcinroy.com/images/ir431.jpg)
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Ed on March 05, 2012
Wilderness is a hard one to define isn't it? I feel that wilderness is something I would relate to lack of humans. Somewhere that we arent the dominant species and where we are reminded we are just another animal, that needs the same things as other animals to survive (food,water,sheleter etc)

I havent travelled an awful lot of the country, but I would have to say the Sperrin Mountains. I'm saying this because they are the place you would call the middle of nowhere, and if you got lost there you are pretty out of the way. I can only compare this to the Mournes where your in respect closer to more towns and more people.

I'm told you could hike in the Sperrins for weeks and not run into a soul....
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: DryBag on March 06, 2012
that's probably true, but I got put off after a day's hike, coming over the top of a particularly difficult climb and seeing somebody parked in their car admiring the view.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Wolf_Larson on March 06, 2012
that's probably true, but I got put off after a day's hike, coming over the top of a particularly difficult climb and seeing somebody parked in their car admiring the view.
lol mate, just think that guy was in the car wishing he was you. I would say he shall be on NI WILD soon  ;D
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: sjh1 on March 31, 2012
The wildest place in Donegal (and perhaps the whole of Ireland) must be the stretch of coastline between Glencolumcille and Ardara.  There's at least 10km of walking there with no road or habitation. Perhaps there are sections of Co. Mayo that come close to this level of remoteness.

I have been under these Slieve Tooey cliffs in a boat, very impressive. Note I'm not getting muddled, I've never been round to Slieve League where the cliffs are actually higher.

Went up to check on the Spinkwee / Cascade River camping spot on Wed. That whole area at the back of Tollymore feels remote to me, perhaps because it's hidden between the forest and the high hills.

As those who have camped there will know there's a nice old oak and birch copse on the east bank of Spinkwee. There is limited natural regeneration of trees in here, I found a few birch, willow and holly saplings (sadly no oak). Grazing appears to be light but it would still be better if they got rid of the bl--dy sheep. Further upstream there are holly saplings and possibly others, I didn't have time to walk up. The stream further west (beyond the abandoned house) also has self-seeded trees and gorse along it's length. Along the back wall of Tollymore there are more birch and willow saplings and at least three ash saplings, along with gorse. Nice reedbed / bog further east from Spinkwee.

There's a badger sett across the river just above the camping spot. Plenty of birds in and around Tollymore. Willow warbler and blackcap (newly arrived migrants) singing and also got dipper, crossbill and jay. Tollymore itself has some limited regeneration of native species.

So all in all quite a wild wee spot that gives a picture of my idea of wilderness as somewhere where natural processes are occurring (can't think of a better explanation!). A wall surrounds this whole area (check map), it would be easy for a conservation organisation to buy it, remove the sheep and see what happens ... would really be first class then.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: sjh1 on April 10, 2012
Got to the Fair Head boulder field yesterday. Wandered in from the Murlough Bay side. Nice woods at Murlough Bay.

I'm not sure how far round the headland I got, think about halfway. I wasted time by going up and down a lot trying to find an easier path. On the way back I just went straight across the boulders and it was a lot quicker.

Photos don't do the place justice, the size and number of boulders, deep crevices, caves etc. make it difficult going. Plenty of thick heather, brambles and regenerating birch, willow and occasional ash saplings. I think there were also some rowans and, perhaps more unwelcome, there were a few sycamores. No definite sign of sheep in the boulder field itself although I did find droppings in some of the "caves" - possibly from the feral goats that reportedly live here? Also three fox scats, proving that these animals get everywhere. It would seem a tough hunting ground for a fox but with plenty of shelter at least.

Bird life scarce yesterday, wren, robin, raven, gannet, oystercatcher, various gulls. Mistle thrush and coal tit singing at Murlough.

I got to a section where there was seemingly no path at all and some quite thick vegetation.  Didn't want to step into a concealed hole and was pushed for time so turned back.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Chris E on April 10, 2012
I must have just missed you, I was there yesterday too. I saw a buzzard  circling around the ruins of the wee church. Had a quick walk around, but couldn't both much due to an ongoing bout of sciatica- literally a pain in the butt.

Some great rock formations around that area, just like the Giant's Causeway lying on it's side.

Defo one of my favourite places, and I'll have to spend more time there as my boys get older.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: sjh1 on October 23, 2013
Would recommend exploring Fermanagh. South of Lower Lough Erne especially good. Definitely among the wildest parts of Northern Ireland with great scattered areas of natural woodland. Even seems to be some woodland expansion in upland areas (... don't tell the conservation organisations).

Sheep-grazing still a problem of course and there are also lots of wild deer. As they have no natural predators the deer are shot to allow woodland regeneration ... strange this is considered when the impact of the non-native sheep is not! Maybe shooting deer is just fun.

Could be great camping spots out there too. Am planning to give it a go some time.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Wolf_Larson on October 23, 2013
Wish there was something to take sheep out as fair game but framers would be pissed, the wildest place in NI must be my house on an everyday night lol

Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: sjh1 on October 24, 2013
Wish there was something to take sheep out as fair game but framers would be pissed, the wildest place in NI must be my house on an everyday night lol

... or as I've often heard, Lurgan Park on a Sat night  :o

Serious though, would recommend a bit of exploring Fermanagh. For those with canoes some of the Lough Erne islands must be really cool too.
Title: Re: Wildest Place in NI?
Post by: Wolf_Larson on October 24, 2013
Jump the gate at the cause way carry on round until you come to steps off the old days.

That is wild and tranquil.

Regards