Northern Ireland Outdoors Forum - Hiking, camping and more
General => General Chat => Topic started by: Eamonn on November 21, 2011
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Hey Everyone, I’m in the process of doing my Mountain Leader training and was wondering if we have any ML's on the forum?
If anyone else has done the training and wants to practice their skills like day/night nav,, ML rope work, steep ground get in touch with me and we can arrange days out for this. Also if anyone who maybe hasn't done the ML training but has done a navigation course and would like to head in to the hills for some practice, get in touch too.
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Still undecided if I'am doing the MLT or WGL,the only thing holding me back at the moment is my lack of single pitch climbing experience,so I'll probably settle with WGL this year,then MLT next year.I'am registered with mountaineering Ireland & have received my logbook.Sounds good the idea of training together,always good to skill mix,even the WGL require's the night nab now,you doing MLT with Tollymore ?
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I'm not doing any of the courses (too expensive >:( ) but i'm certainley up for learning new skills (for free :) ) so happy to join up for any days out, also happy to pass on what i've learnt so far. Should i start up one of these logbooks just in case i do a course? What details do i need to log, i've a good memory of every Mourne trip in the last 2 years backed up by lots of photos (just counted them and thats about 70 trips :o )
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The log-book is a course requirement to show evidence of good record keeping ,it includes different sections for different types of pursuits,ie personal mountain days,walking in uncultivated remote country,winter walking,international walking,single pitch climbing,the MLT course incorporates more sections,than WGL.You're more than welcome to join me on any days out Liam,everybody's got something to learn & something to teach,i'am always looking to impove my abilities,on that note of all abilities I often invite novice first time walkers along with me so that I gain experience in dealing with different groups,it's not all about getting up the hill as fast as you can,although mountain goat Russell has improved my pace by double
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I had a bit of a google myself and found some info, doesn't seem like you need to record much on the log, i thought it would require more info on distances, pace, ascent etc. I see you can get an exemption from having to do the ML training, I've certainly covered the wild camping requirements ;D
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I didn't realise the Mountain Leader Training required climbing? I've never seen mention of it in any of the documentation.
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Just looked over the log-book again,as far as i can make out the MLT now incorporates ,personal single pitch,multi-pitch and snow and ice climbing. for WGL these are non-applicable,maybe i'am wrong.Mountain goat looked over my log-book a few months ago,he thought both course's ,WGL,MLT where both more in depth now,as even the WGL involves Night nav,maybe someone can correct me on this,as my climbing experience is limited to a few days out and the wall at Tollymore
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This is defo news to me. I'm not doing the MLTA at the MLA was specifically for hills outside of winter and that was all that was involved in the training.
The Mountain Leader (ML) Award is intended for those who wish to lead others on hill walks in the British Isles. It is ideal for teachers and youth leaders, as well as those who operate in the club environment. The purpose of the Mountain Leader Award is to promote the safe enjoyment of the hills. The scheme provides training and assessment in the technical and group management skills required by those who wish to lead groups in the mountains of Britain and Ireland, other than in winter conditions. It integrates training, personal experience and assessment in a variety of conditions in mountainous country. Since its introduction in 1964 the scheme has become recognised by Education and Library Boards, the statutory youth services and the national and voluntary youth organisations as providing technical competence in this field. Valid throughout the UK and Ireland it is a national yardstick against which standards are measured. The minimum experience required to enter the scheme is 20 logged 'quality days' in the British or Irish mountains. Training consists of three two-day courses or one five-day course, followed by a five day assessment.. The award is a pre-requisite for many higher-level mountain training schemes. BOS also administers a Mountain Leader scheme, which is equivalent to the ML provided in the UK.
http://www.mountaineering.ie/trainingandsafety/viewdetails.asp?ID=44
This is an extract from the syllabus:
http://www.mountaineering.ie/documentbank/uploads/MLbookletblue2009.pdf
It does not provide training in rock climbing or in winter mountaineering except as is necessary to give a leader confidence in dealing with rocky terrain or coping with an emergency situation.
However, we may be talking about slightly different courses or versions of the courses. There are a number of bodies in the UK and it's the Irish/Northern Irish one I had researched.
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Strange that it's included in the log-book,maybe it's an extra add on course
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Does the log book cover more than one course? I'm only overly interested because I'd not do it if it needed full winter training or climbing as I'm not that interested in either. That said, I might look at the Walking Group Leader first as it's a much less intensive course and doesn't need the same sort of time commitment.
Strange that it's included in the log-book,maybe it's an extra add on course
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heres a link to the handbook
http://www.mlte.org/uploads/publications/122.pdf
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From the last section in that book.
11. To what does 'the glorious twelfth' relate and when is it? (1)
:D What relevance does that question have? Is it so that MLs aren't running about trying to put out fires on the 11th night?
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I've my ML (summer)...
Exempt from training due to completing a level 3
Hillwalking leadership course with the SEELB...
Exemption is a locally decided thing though... I originally applied to MLT HQ in PYB and they replied that "navigation in the mournes is a simple affair where one only has to handrail a large wall to get anywhere"
Applied to Tollymore, no problems and then I went on to do my assessment in PYB a few years ago...
Could do a bit of steep ground stuff with folks if they wanted, but alot of people get worried about it unless airily, and forget basics like good micro nav and group control/interaction...
My assessment also featured a fair bit of 'local' flora/fauna/history knowledge...
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Hey the only difference between the WGL and the ML as far as i can tell is the one night camp out and the rope work. There is no single pitch climbing,multi-pitch and snow and ice climbing or winter skills on the ML, these are separate courses. WGL is low level walking and the ML is low and high level walking, both in summer conditions
I'm doing my course with Tollymore.
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Difference between WGL and ML are a bit of a grey shade of vague to say the least...
It's dependant on geography and personal interpretation...
My views, most N.Ireland is ok for WGL however steep uplands, such as leading through corries, gullies or along ridges that are exposed and require use of rope or stuff, I'd rather you had an ML... But then again, an ML leader shouldn't be taking people into that terrain in the first place...
Planned use of rope is MIA, MIC, Guide territory, get your rope out on an ML walk and you've already screwed up...
Good summary here http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/page.php?id=1897
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Yeah having a rope is like having a first aid kit. You don't go out in to the hills planning to use it. :) Example for rope use would be if for some reason you had to escape of a mountain and ran into some unavoidable steep terrain that had a high risk of someone slipping or a small step(2metres) to climb down then the rope would come out. It's not for abseiling or lowering people down 20m cliff faces.
As an ML you still need to know how to use a rope, so it needs to be practiced.
I'd like to do some navigation practice at the weekend if anyone is up for it? Friday night/ Saturday morning as I’m planning to go to the camp at lough shannagh.
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"navigation in the mournes is a simple affair where one only has to handrail a large wall to get anywhere"
thats fine if you follow the right wall, unlike me 8)
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Done that myself Liam,Batt's wall on Eagle!
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mine was on meelmore, see here http://www.ni-wild.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1984.msg19999#msg19999
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The log-book is a course requirement to show evidence of good record keeping ,it includes different sections for different types of pursuits,ie personal mountain days,walking in uncultivated remote country,winter walking,international walking,single pitch climbing,the MLT course incorporates more sections,than WGL.You're more than welcome to join me on any days out Liam,everybody's got something to learn & something to teach,i'am always looking to impove my abilities,on that note of all abilities I often invite novice first time walkers along with me so that I gain experience in dealing with different groups,it's not all about getting up the hill as fast as you can,although mountain goat Russell has improved my pace by double
For your log book ( and your exam & assessment) is it necessary to have completed 11 "party trips"(and resulting recordings) in various conditions not necessarily including digging snow holes or ice climbs ( Winter MLC ). I'm presuming that your MLT course has a written exam and a day long practical assessment . What is WGL ? Would the "leaders" who are involved in the D of E Award have a MLC /WGL. Thanks.
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Walking group leader W.G.L
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Received an email from Mountain Training Association today requesting me to pay membership fee's,how does this differ from Mountaineering Ireland,which i've joined already,do i need this for Walking group leader,is it a requirement before i start the course,my Course starts in March
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Just noticed this wee thread today. I have my level 3 hillwalking with Bushmills (NEELB) was thinking of doing the ML but it costs more money than i have available at current, but if some of you guys would be willing to practice night nav and rope work I would be well up for that some time.
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Will be doing some night -nav this week,thinking something straight forward to began with ,maybe Trassey -slievenaglough via the gully then down along the wall to Hare's gap,done very little night nav but would like to do glen river -saddle -commedagh,shan slieve and back into Donard wood,sure let me know
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For night nav practise your better off with a more featureless terrain without walls to guide you so the compass and pacing becomes your only guide. The area just beyond the stile at meelmore lodge would be good for that, you could try and get those geocaches in the dark ;D pick out features like the path bends, the sheepfold and try and find them, when you get those try for spurs and re-entrants. Make it lots of short walks rather than a long hike. Anyhow I'm up for this, mon nights suit me best, tues possible, wed only after 10pm, thursdays are out, fri, sat and sundays are a lottery.
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I live up in Coleraine so getting down to the mournes is a real struggle. Maybe some evening over the Christmas break I'll organise a time to meet up and try out the new Christmas gear.
Yeah the less features to follow the better, but it is always nice to come up against a wall and follow it in the dark!!
Thanks guys
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I'd be up for this too. i should be free most weekends after this one and maybe during the week.
Hey jonny, give me shout when you can practice the rope work.