Northern Ireland Outdoors Forum - Hiking, camping and more
General => Gear Questions, Information, Reviews and Competitions => Topic started by: kaya on October 11, 2011
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Hi
I just purchased the Mountain Equipment Fitzroy jacket. They say its comparable warmth to down but still warm when wet and has a waterproof coating.
I was wondering what people thought of primaloft compared to down.
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Welcome to the forum kaya, I have a down jacket and a primaloft one and the down is alot warmer but as most know if it gets wet its next to usless. where as primaloft is not as warm but if it gets wet then it can still perform.
Berghaus are making a range of down jacket that has DWR so if it gets wet it should still preform.
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Primaloft is as warm as down of the some thickness (loft) as they trap the same air, but for the same weight, you tend to get much thicker down garments. Something like the Rab Photon Belay is probably close to the average down jacket, but 33-100% heavier and not as packable.
Lenny has noted the advancements to make down better in the wet, as synthetic continue to advance in weight and compressibility.
I have a Rab Generator Alpine primaloft jacket and a PHD down vest for flexibility. I only wear them when stationary.
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Or what he said lol :),
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Cheers, i am in two minds to send it back and get the ME lightline as it is around the same money and has a waterproof finish. It looks almost too warm though and i already have a North face nuptse, i figured the fitzroy would be a happy medium all rounder. ???
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Stick with the Fitzroy!
The lightline is a slightly more technical jacket than the Nuptse but would be about the same warmth.
The Fitzroy will be a bit less warm but you'll get more use out of it in our wet weather. Whip out the Nuptse when the big freeze comes and you've something for every occasion.
If the Nuptse dies in the future, then the lightline would be a decent replacement (or a PHD minimus if you never wear it under a pack).
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Sorted, ill keep the Fitzroy, good advice!
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I'm quite interested in this question. I have a Berghaus down vest which is lovely and warm but I'm wondering how much heat I'd lose if I went to something Primaloft to save a bit of weight. The down vest is 443g so there's not likely a direct massive saving but I carry a fleece as well and it's 434g so if I could get a single more advanced piece of outerwear I might shave a couple of hundred grams.
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I think Primaloft often isn't compared like-for-like with down. For example, the Primaloft filled Rab Generator seems to get compared to the down filled Rab Neutrino but in my mind the two are totally different products designed for different uses. Primaloft filled jackets tend to be designed for more active multi-sport use as opposed to the "puffa" down jacket which is more likely to be seen sitting around in camp... or the local pub!
Going with the example above I think the Rab Generator is much more accurately compared to the down filled Rab Microlight. Both these insulated vests are designed for the same activities, have similar weight of fill and the Generator is only 40g heavier. Would be interested to hear how they compare in the real world for insulation, but I'd assume that 90g down fill would be warmer than 100g Primaloft.
Personally I have a Lowe Alpine Thermo (http://www.fieldandtrek.com/lowe-alpine-thermo-jacket-mens-446126) jacket which is basically a clone of the Rab Generator but costs half the price. It has "LoweLoft" insulation instead of Primaloft, but it's the same idea and I wouldn't be surprised if it comes out of the same factory without the Primaloft branding. It's a really good jacket, very pleased with it. If I was going to buy a down vest then it would be the PHD Minimus that twentyclicks suggested, but I would wait for the PHD sale (which has just ended!) :)
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Your generator / microlight comparison is very good. I'd say they'd be the same warmth though as same thickness. The generator would leak less (heat & water) from the stitch-through cold spots on the down microlight... when there is that little down fill the weight advantage disappears as it is mostly in the similar outer materials.
If RedLeader got a generator pull-on type thing ~350g and a PHD down vest ~240g he'd lose a few quid and a few grams. A thicker synthetic all-rounder like a Rab Photon or ME Fitzroy will be in the 500-600g range.
PHD sale rocks, and there's one about 3 times a year. There is £10 NI postage though. Still, £99 for a top of the range 800fill ultra-light down vest is pretty sweet...
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PHD sale rocks, and there's one about 3 times a year. There is £10 NI postage though. Still, £99 for a top of the range 800fill ultra-light down vest is pretty sweet...
Didn't get as far as calculating the postage, but the Minimus did get added to my basket a few times over the last couple of weeks! Just about managed to resist going through with the transaction. I also couldnt decide if it was worth spending the extra tenner on Drishell as I would likely only be wearing it in a tent or suchlike.
Truth told I'm waiting on you to start making your own insulated jackets Craig, then I can order one of them ;)
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I have a Berghaus Furnace down jacket which is 700 fill and a berghaus Belay jacket which with stood the test of Kilimanjaro, both are very light and very warm, I must admit I am a sucker for Berghaus. and when there new down jacket comes down in price I will be buying.
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Hmm. So warmth for weight you're still plumping for down over synthetic? Seems my best plan would be to bin the microfleece and get a generator smock type jacket instead with a view to buying a lighter fill down vest when the Berghaus needs replaced? I'm all for saving 200g but it's probably not worth £200 :D
Your generator / microlight comparison is very good. I'd say they'd be the same warmth though as same thickness. The generator would leak less (heat & water) from the stitch-through cold spots on the down microlight... when there is that little down fill the weight advantage disappears as it is mostly in the similar outer materials.
If RedLeader got a generator pull-on type thing ~350g and a PHD down vest ~240g he'd lose a few quid and a few grams. A thicker synthetic all-rounder like a Rab Photon or ME Fitzroy will be in the 500-600g range.
PHD sale rocks, and there's one about 3 times a year. There is £10 NI postage though. Still, £99 for a top of the range 800fill ultra-light down vest is pretty sweet...
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RL - fleece is cheap and very effective, but a synth top would be warmer. Can't deny down does win for warmth v weight, but in this climate I need synth in the mix (because I'm stupid and always am happy to be soaked through until I stop and start to freeze).
Lenny - yeah, Berghaus stuff is really well made, and their extrem range is top technical kit - I love that they've really brought back the bright red/blue combo. Looks very pro 8)
Suspect - hah! If I could get the right materials I would consider making my own clothes. It's certainly entertained frequently in my mind. Twentyclicks would have 2 simple ranges - a Walden philosophy range for anywhere, anytime, simple, subtle, effective and hardwearing... and a super tech range of minimal, bad-ass, alpine apparel. No logos, but unmistakable design. No choice, just the right choice!
As for dri-shell... I didn't bother for the same reason. Easy to pull a waterproof over it if there's dampness about.
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So the Fitzroy arrived and i diddnt think much to it and it was too small so i packaged it up for exchange. Then i dandered into the house of value outddor shop and derry and came across this http://www.outdoorgear4u.co.uk/category/ski-wear/mens-ski-jackets/trespass-igloo-down-jacket.php
This jacket is superbly finished and very nice on. It feels better than a £280 rab and looks great! It was a bargain at £60 so i snapped it up and will be gettin a refund on the fitzroy. It may not be a fancy label but i can tell you this is great piece of kit, warm and with the water repellency i was after! Trust me when i say i will wear this to death so ill let you know how it compares to the top brands i go through.
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LOL - as long as you are sorted! All this heat is just trying to soften us for the blow of winter ;D
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How much does that jacket weigh?
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Im not sure, but it aint heavy. It didnt come with a stuff sack but i have an old rab one here i think it will fit in. I tested it out walking the dog there, came back boiling. Id say theres another few weeks before this comes out again and at that price ill have no fear sitting round a sparking fire, think i would of cried if i got a burn in the fitzroy!
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No-one has mentioned the waterproof properties of a primaloft jacket. Down loses all its insulation properties when wet, which makes it less od an all rounder in our climate. I find my RAB photon waterproof for at least 30 mins in steady rain, and still warm when wet through.
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Hi all
Im confused (That is normal)
right Im going to iceland for an 3 day break and will be going on a northern lights tour :-) so what clothes / Jacket should I purchase up to around £200 jacket (down or primaloft)
Thanks in advanced
Warmest regards
Chris
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Definitely down, anything by Mountain Equipment, i dont like the cut of anything Rab.
I have this and its awesome for very super cold and windy, not wet though.
http://www.webtogs.co.uk/Mountain_Equipment_Mens_Hooded_Xero_Down_Jacket_103125.html
I also have a montane primaloft but its for damp mizzly cold days
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they both have there uses. Down is great for dry cold as if you get it wet it's buggered. I have a berghaus down jacket from the extreme range and it's amazing.
What time of the year are you going? Because if your going in spring primaloft would be better and yet again berghaus make great jacket called the belay jacket.
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I have no idea about coats etc.... I just layer up ;)
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Depends what temperatures you will be expecting. Iceland is a maritime arctic climate so can be damp a lot of the year, but if it's winter and the temps are constantly sub-zero (say <-5) you can be confident the precipitation will be snow. Saying that, you're heading out to see the Northern Lights so you'll be out in clear conditions.
The discontinued Rab Photon Belay was a great beefy synthetic jacket that probably would do to -10. Most other synthetics I know are fairly light. Down is a good bet, but again most down jackets in that price range are stitch-thru (not baffled), so may be limited to around -5 to -10. Depends on your own metabolism, how long you are exposed/standing around...thick fleece or wooly under will help (most mountaineers/campers can't carry these so the ratings are probably based on more moderate layers).
Cheapest and most ideal solution would be to see if you can hire a jacket out there (check with the company)...should be suitable to the conditions and you can use the money saved to buy a nice primaloft synthetic for use more often back home. It is only a 3 day trip... unless you want an excuse for a snuggly down coat ;D
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Many thanks for the replies - We are going in Feb/March and there may be some rain? dont know