Northern Ireland Outdoors Forum - Hiking, camping and more
General => Meets, places, trips and reviews => Topic started by: RedLeader on May 19, 2011
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We're pondering having a "Survival night" where we all wander up to Donard Wood (or suchlike) and do an overnighter with absolute minimal kit. What does anyone think - we'll not panic about dates yet but I am interested in what people think is "minimal kit".
I'd suggest we have a few grades of minimal so we don't discount people who fancy "mostly minimal" or "knife and loincloth".
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One bottle of buckfast, one half bottle of buckfast, t shirt, trousers, socks, gutties... :D
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We're going camping, not hanging round the local garage :)
One bottle of buckfast, one half bottle of buckfast, t shirt, trousers, socks, gutties... :D
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Alright I might allow underwear, a jumper and a good, long warm, waterproof coat. On a warm summer night and with a nice wee sheltered spot you'd survive alright with that kit. A lighter and a newspaper - (for reading, warmth and fire) could also be optional. My favourite for these sort of events was always the Ireland's Saturday Night but sadly it's no more!
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I'm up for whatever the majority think is best. But would like to go down the road off not taking any Bivvy or sleeping bags eventually and just using what clothes I have on my back. I would also like to try picking a random spot on a map and we would have to camp there as after all in a survival situation you don't know where your going to end up. But quite happy to go with the flow.
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I like the idea of the random spot on the map. Seems realistic.
I'd maybe bring my sleeping bag but try not to use it and just sleep in my clothes as the stars as my blanket. Weather dependent of course.
Would like to see this idea come together, so I can meet all yous lot.
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The clothes on your back, a knife and water bottle with purifcation tablets. thats it. Its only one night, you wont die if you dont find foor.
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See Lenny has the right idea!
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Err, EDC, GHB? Eau de Cologne and Great Highland Bagpipe? ;)
I'd agree about the random spot. I think things like this are best worked up to in steps. No point having a crap night because you tried to do too much at once. That's why I'd pick a spot we know we'll get resources in and bring basic waterproof gear / bivvy / sleeping bag. Then once we nail it next time it's loincloth and knife. Personally I'd prefer to bring the usual basics but build a shelter and cook on the open fire, but that's the child in me screaming to get out!
For me no survival situation will ever involve me not at least having my EDC. I know ppl will say you should be able to survive with nothing and either 'obtain' or produce what you need but I always have it and normally have a GHB in the car. I took the scout motto to heart....
Dunno about the random spot, for me the idea of things like this is to practice skills you have, learn or try new skills you dont. At least if you kmnow where you are going you can prep for the location. Going random you could end up wasting a night just trying to figure out where you are going to sleep, realistic - yes but perhaps counter productive.
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Could we maybe do both.
How about we bring a bivy/tarp/sleeping bag etc... But try not to use them and instead build a shelter and what not and try to do it that way.
Only getting into the bivy/tarp/Sleep bag if all goes to mess.
Where's everyones sense of adventure?
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I say just dont take it, then you won't be tempted to use it.
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Interesting, you should do a post on what you keep in those, am sure everyone would be interested.
EDC- Every Day Carry (my Knife)
GHB - Get Home Bag ( Stuff to get me home/survive )
Bit of a prepper ;)
Im all for the bring them just incase... But you will have to add something with a significant blade to the list if any sort of shelter is going to be build ie axe, machete etc.
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Im all for the bring them just incase... But you will have to add something with a significant blade to the list if any sort of shelter is going to be build ie axe, machete etc.
That is true.
I have a knife and all, but now you mention it I would feel better knowing someone brought more than a pen knife to fell a tree with ;D
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I'd bring what ever is agreed and allowed , also my car parked in Donard would be crammed full of food and beer so I could run down and grab it to trade to everyone 1 mars bar 2 beer for whoever builds my shelter , it's all about surviving and using what opertunitys you can exploit ;D
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You could make a fortune selling ice creams ::)
I'd bring what ever is agreed and allowed , also my car parked in Donard would be crammed full of food and beer so I could run down and grab it to trade to everyone 1 mars bar 2 beer for whoever builds my shelter , it's all about surviving and using what opertunitys you can exploit ;D
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One bottle of buckfast, one half bottle of buckfast, t shirt, trousers, socks, gutties... :D
You'd need the full 2 bottles mate and then yer set! Also with that much wine in you not only will you glow in the dark but also sleep anywhere!
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This sounds like so much fun! Just wondering if us females can come too? :-\
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Of course. No sexism around here. You're carryin' your own bag tho ;) ::)
This sounds like so much fun! Just wondering if us females can come too? :-\
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You're carryin' your own bag tho ;) ::)
This sounds like so much fun! Just wondering if us females can come too? :-\
Confrimed! I'm not hauling that 5Kg tent of yours another 4 miles of a 45 Degree slope.
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Hush your bap :p I carried 2 litres of water! along with all my other stuff too .... (Dont even ask people) lol and isnt it great you have a girlfriend that gets so excited over tents and camping stuff she spends most her money on it for us to use:P
And redleader, Awesome! :D you'll have someone to cook ye all food :D
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Awesome. I never turn down an offer of food!
Hush your bap :p I carried 2 litres of water! along with all my other stuff too .... (Dont even ask people) lol and isnt it great you have a girlfriend that gets so excited over tents and camping stuff she spends most her money on it for us to use:P
And redleader, Awesome! :D you'll have someone to cook ye all food :D
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One bottle of buckfast, one half bottle of buckfast, t shirt, trousers, socks, gutties... :D
You'd need the full 2 bottles mate and then yer set! Also with that much wine in you not only will you glow in the dark but also sleep anywhere!
:D true!
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Could we maybe do both.
How about we bring a bivy/tarp/sleeping bag etc... But try not to use them and instead build a shelter and what not and try to do it that way.
Only getting into the bivy/tarp/Sleep bag if all goes to mess.
Where's everyones sense of adventure?
I'd agree with this, you don't know what the weather is going to be like so having an emergency standby would be good. I think that for some of us this may be the first time building shelters so maybe for a first night it could be done experimentally and so if your shelter doesn't work and it rains heavily you could throw up a tarp. As Redleader said there's no point in having a crap night as this is supposed to be fun as well, so we could work up to a minimalist survial night later in the year when skills are more finely honed.
Just wondering as well, if we're thinking of Donard Wood what are the rules on cutting down trees on Forest service land? :o Maybe another reason to bring tarps?
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There would defo be no need to cut down trees, we'd just work with the deadfall stuff around. Don't think we'd want to anyway just because as a group we'd like more trees not less :)
Could we maybe do both.
How about we bring a bivy/tarp/sleeping bag etc... But try not to use them and instead build a shelter and what not and try to do it that way.
Only getting into the bivy/tarp/Sleep bag if all goes to mess.
Where's everyones sense of
I'd agree with this, you don't know what the weather is going to be like so having an emergency standby would be good. I think that for some of us this may be the first time building shelters so maybe for a first night it could be done experimentally and so if your shelter doesn't work and it rains heavily you could throw up a tarp. As Redleader said there's no point in having a crap night as this is supposed to be fun as well, so we could work up to a minimalist survial night later in the year when skills are more finely honed.
Just wondering as well, if we're thinking of Donard Wood what are the rules on cutting down trees on Forest service land? :o Maybe another reason to bring tarps?
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Thats what I meant, sorry if I wasn't clear. I wouldn't be keen on damaging any trees so the deadfall would be better, best to to have a leave no trace policy ;)
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We need a few more females I think :P
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Our lady quotient tends to be quite low usually. Kat and Spark have been out plenty but they don't like to rough it :) You'll have to do some recruitment for us!
We need a few more females I think :P
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I'd be interested.. Just depends when it is as I am pending an operation and need time to re-coop...
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Would you not be better running a training day so everybody can have a bit of practice lightiing a fire and building a shelter during daylight and then arrange a survival night. Just thought it be better trying to gain a bit of experience first as we're not all experts! No point in throwing ourselves into the deep in!
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i would be up for this, work permitting!
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No tree chopping :( Does that mean I can't bring my kukri? But what if there are zombies? ;) ;D
(http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af203/cerbera147/EDC%20Setup/Multitools/Knives/S1052691.jpg)
(http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af203/cerbera147/EDC%20Setup/Multitools/Knives/S1052697.jpg)
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I am interested in what people think is "minimal kit".
I am defo up for this. Minimal kit to me would have to include stuff to make the night tolerable and sensible if the weather turns bad. There is no point being wet and miserable to prove the size of your stones.
I would have thought
Bivvy bag
sleeping bag
fire lighting equipment
spork
knife
water container
length of cord material
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We have the solid fuel stove and mess tins. This week we took the little gas cheap cooker due to not wanting to burn carnfunnocks grass but I have to say I like the solid fuel stove better. Its light and packs up small which is great but stays lit long enough to cook some sausages and boil water all in one. Also if you need to boil water and cook at the same time put the two mess tins ontop of each other (water ontop) Love it! and is so cheap.
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Some great suggestions for minimal kit here. Should we maybe set a provisional date so people can see if they're free?
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I'd agree with seeing when people are free.
It seems most would prefer a training day. I think this is a good idea, get everyone together and share knowledge about the subjects we know. Its better having four people knowing how to start a fire instead of one. If everyone learnt something from that day then that would be half the challenge.
The more you know, the less you need.
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Just throwing this in as a suggestion but I found this kit list on Uncle Ray's site, it might be worth considering? Not saying of course that we all have to go and buy expensive kit (I certainly can't! :() but it might give a good idea of some basics?
http://www.raymears.com/Docs/PDF/INTRODUCTION_TO_BUSHCRAFT_KIT_LIST.pdf
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Thats a good find, but I cetainly wouldnt carry all that for one or two nights stay. (May just be me)
I dont feel it would be nessasary to get a sun hat or sun cream (We never get any sun in N.I :D) dont see the point in the notebook and pencil etc.
Personally I dont mind getting my clothes dirty etc. I would happily put them on the next day. I'd bring a set of clothes to sleep in and that might be at a push.
It all depends on how long your staying. And what you know you are able to do. Hence why a trianing day is a good idea.
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I'd be up for this, depending on dates and how long it takes for my left arm to start working again! I'd probably be thinking of bringing the following kit:
Bivvy bag
Sleeping bag
Fire steel
Knife
Crusader cup
Paracord
I know we realistically can't catch or trap food up in Donard Wood, and I don't want to go hungry, so maybe a compromise is to bring something like fish that can be gutted on site and cooked over the fire? Or Mr. Dow can show us how to skin rabbits ;)
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Yeah, I like the idea of that.
I'm not sure if butchers do rabbits, Do they? if they did I'm sure they would have one that you could buy and skin yourself.
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I like the idea of bringing a sleeping bag that made me a big nervous at first. (Due to m.e blah blah don't want to bore you all) :P Any ideas yet on location in Donard wood itself? I have never been there..I think.
Fish sounds great to bring.
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I know we realistically can't catch or trap food up in Donard Wood, and I don't want to go hungry, so maybe a compromise is to bring something like fish that can be gutted on site and cooked over the fire? Or Mr. Dow can show us how to skin rabbits ;)
Gives me a chance to get out and shoot some bunnys.
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Hi folks, is this still happening? i would be interested in tagging along if no one minds. Whats the rules for this one?
GF
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Its still in its planning stages. We have been discussing what we would be allowed to bring. Any ideas?
But I hope it takes shape, love these nights.
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We could even have a training day some weekend where Greyfox teaches us about lighting fire, he seems to know his stuff. :D
I'm sure someone here knows how to skin a rabbit.
I'd be able to teach yous all a few basic knots, nothing amazingly fancy. Just enough to get two bits of wood to join for a shelter.
Anyone else have a skill they could teach everyone?
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No tree chopping :( Does that mean I can't bring my kukri? But what if there are zombies? ;) ;D
Everyone knows you need a shotgun for zombies :)
I like the idea of bringing a sleeping bag that made me a big nervous at first. (Due to m.e blah blah don't want to bore you all) :P Any ideas yet on location in Donard wood itself? I have never been there..I think.
Fish sounds great to bring.
You can see a map to the Donard Wood spot here:
http://www.ni-wild.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1514.0 (http://www.ni-wild.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1514.0)
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Thank you. Now I know where it is :)
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You can see a map to the Donard Wood spot here:
http://www.ni-wild.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1514.0
only 30 minutes walk to the nearest chippy ;)
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At least if all goes down the hole we can have a fish and chips then :P
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Anyone else have a skill they could teach everyone?
I'm gonna have a go at friction firelighting, so if I can do it I'll be happy to pass on my mistakes experience :D
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Anyone else have a skill they could teach everyone?
I'm gonna have a go at friction firelighting, so if I can do it I'll be happy to pass on my mistakes experience :D
I'll have to just watch, I hear it's a tedious process. (Probably can be easy if you know what your doing)
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I hear the same. I've seen Ray Mears with big calloused hands trying to use a bow/drill. If he finds it hard, I suspect we might too :)
Anyone else have a skill they could teach everyone?
I'm gonna have a go at friction firelighting, so if I can do it I'll be happy to pass on my mistakes experience :D
I'll have to just watch, I hear it's a tedious process. (Probably can be easy if you know what your doing)
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Agreed. Thats why its better trying it out at a training day as susposed to the real thing.
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No pressure then!!!
(better get practicing this!! :-\)
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only 30 minutes walk to the nearest chippy ;)
Normally no walk required though if you phone your order through to Liam in advance ;)
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No pressure then!!!
(better get practicing this!! :-\)
What way are you planning on doing it? I've seen a few techniques on tv, only ever tried the bow and shoelace contraption,
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Osin
Most likely the bowdrill, it's probably the least difficult method as opposed to fireplough or rubbing one stick. I'll be practicing it tomorrow so I'll let you all know how i get on!
Failing that, I can show you how to use a firesteel! :D
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You are all talking about taking sleeping bags and tarps, but not one of you has talked about having a firesteel. Is it me or are you missing the point to survival?
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I think the reason fire is soo important is that:
Fire = Heat
But also
Sleepingbag = Heat
You dont NEED to cook food when surviving, just its alot nicer.
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I think the reason fire is soo important is that:
Fire = Heat
But also
Sleepingbag = Heat
You dont NEED to cook food when surviving, just its alot nicer.
Oisin I understand what you are saying but what I am trying to point out is you are all talking about the hard way to make fire. Why not just take a firesteel and thats it FIRE.
The sleeping bag point was ref the fact this is survival and my idea on survival is a little tobbaco tin with some tools and bits and bobs and a knife. No sleeping bag & No tarp.
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Okay. I get you, just trying to explain.
The way you mentioned the wee tin, yes thats good. But I dont know if you would have one of them in a survival situation. Fair enough you probably wont have a sleeping ag either, but I just thought it would be wiser taking one just incase.
It all depends on the situation your trying to rebuild/create, as in if you were out for a walk in the mountains and you had to survive there for a night due to zombies or something, you would probably have suitable things with you.
But then again if the situation comes from you being on a plane and being in a crash and ending up on a desert island you'll be lucky if you still have your shoes.
All depends on what situation your trying to create
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not one of you has talked about having a firesteel.
Er..I think I did mention a firesteel! I took that as a given that people would be taking one anyway or some other means of making a fire but it's still good to try other techniques.
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I agree with Lenny on this one, if its for one night whats the point in a sleeping bag or bivvy. Why doesnt one person bring a tarp or a 10 x 10 piece of poly which we could use to make a temporary shelter or ground sheet with. As for fire lets just use a firesteel this time round and look at other options the next time. Here would be my list.
Tarp or poly 10' x 10'
1 knife
1 firesteel (tinder optional)
10m of paracord
1 empty 2 litre plastic bottle
Food (optional)
1 billy can
Clothing (whatever you choose to wear)
Ofcourse we will all have mobile phones with us and someone should bring a medi kit just encase, but thats it. What else is there?
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I agree with Lenny on this one, if its for one night whats the point in a sleeping bag or bivvy. Why doesnt one person bring a tarp or a 10 x 10 piece of poly which we could use to make a temporary shelter or ground sheet with. As for fire lets just use a firesteel this time round and look at other options the next time. Here would be my list.
Tarp or poly 10' x 10'
1 knife
1 firesteel (tinder optional)
10m of paracord
1 empty 2 litre plastic bottle
Food (optional)
1 billy can
Clothing (whatever you choose to wear)
Ofcourse we will all have mobile phones with us and someone should bring a medi kit just encase, but thats it. What else is there?
I would say that is a perfect kit list for survival weekend minus the tarp. If you find something in the mountains then thats fine.
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I'd be up for this, depending on dates and how long it takes for my left arm to start working again! I'd probably be thinking of bringing the following kit:
Bivvy bag
Sleeping bag
Fire steel
Knife
Crusader cup
Paracord
Pretty sure I, along with a few others, mentioned bringing a fire steel. The reason I will be bringing a sleeping bag is because any fool can be uncomfortable. I could of course go all Bear and make myself a "sheeping bag" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOEWvypaJS4) but I doubt the smell around the camp fire would be too pleasant and I don't think it would be the best way to appease the local farmers. Of course everyone will have different objectives, so if anyone wants to go with nothing but the clothes on their back fair play to them. Personally my objectives would be to build and sleep in a lean-to or a-frame shelter (with sleeping bag to keep me toasty and a bivvy bag purely to protect the sleeping bag) and get a fire going using nothing but the fire steel and maybe a feather stick or something. Nothing too adventurous, but something a bit different all the same.
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Yeah I think the same as suspectmonkey. Im totally with bringing the clothes on your back and fire steel if I could. But I need a sleeping bag because if my legs get to cold they freeze up and well you'd all have to take turns at carrying me back :P
I think a few of you need to sort out the list of stuff to bring etc. The date and whereabouts. Post it abit before the actual night on a new post for people to look at and well if people disagree then I'm sure something can be figured out. There is like 10 or more men here who Im sure all have there own way of doing things that all work for them. So getting it all down into one little survival list will be a challenge. Just remember there can be more than one night. So if people have different ideas then I'm sure everyone wont say no to another awesome night in the woods.
Grace
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Ok guys, if you feel you need a sleeping bag then thats cool.
All im saying is that is not survival if you have a biviy and a sleeping bag.
Everyone to thier own - I'm not looking for a fight.
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BE SAFE & BRING EVERYTHING
whether you use it or not is a different matter, but if its in the bag beside you when the weather takes a turn for the worst you'll be glad of it
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I agree with Lenny here. No point starting a little argument over something that is meant to be fun for everyone. And by the way I didnt mean if I did to come across like I was being bitchy. :) I know Oisin says it can happen sometimes :P
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Have a read of this all :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_skills (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival_skills)
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BE SAFE & BRING EVERYTHING
whether you use it or not is a different matter, but if its in the bag beside you when the weather takes a turn for the worst you'll be glad of it
That’s the attitude I like. I have had my fill of miserable nights in the hills, Lough Shannagh and the Meelemore saddle to name a few recent ish ones. Don’t get me wrong I like the whole idea and I really do sign up to it all but I am not wanting to be freezing, get zero sleep etc. Ill have a go at building whatever it is to sleep in but I want to know that if it all goes wrong I at least have warm bag for the night.
Matthew
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All im saying is that is not survival if you have a biviy and a sleeping bag.
Not to be pedantic, but just to point out there have been plenty of "survival" situations were people have been fully equipped and still been in life or death situations. I don't think "survival" purely boils down to what equipment you have at your disposal, often the survival element can be your physical location or physical health. Take for example the recent thread (http://www.ni-wild.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1987.0) on the Canadian woman who survived seven weeks stranded. She may very well of had a sleeping bag, a bivvy bag, a stove etc. at her disposal but due to her physical location she was in a life or death survival situation. It's perfectly reasonable to assume that if you ended up in a survival situation with your tobacco tin of essentials you may very well still have your rucksack with shelter and insulation. You can't just draw a line and say that taking certain items into the field means it is no longer a survival situation. That's my take on it anyway, frankly I'm not looking to earn any kind of badge or medal, just want to enjoy carving up some sticks and lashing some logs around the camp fire for a bit of craic :)
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I employ survival techniques every day and night, otherwise i wouldn't be here :D
so maybe its actually a BUSHCRAFT night we should be looking at ;) p.s. if i go i'm still bringing my sandwiches ::)
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Suspet you are right, must be the milatry coming out but one tin with kit is survival. sleeping bag and biviy is comfort and survival is not comfortable.
I wont be bring this up any more. I have more than likely repeated myself to much now.
Peace out
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An excellent suggestion, I think we've got a little ahead of ourselves with definitions etc. If this were a bushcraft night then it covers all the bases yet were not pressured into having a rough night when we don't need to. By all means we should practise shelterbuilding, firelighting or whatever but, as has been said, if the weather takes a turn for the worse we should be able to use whatever equipment we have brought with us. After all we're meant to be enjoying it and having a bit of craic but that's not going to happen if you're cold, wet and miserable.
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p.s. if i go i'm still bringing my sandwiches ::)
That's okay, but you have to lug up a bag of wheat and bake the bread in some kind of earthen charcoal oven ;D
Am actually quite looking forward to this as if we all pool together our collective skills and knowledge we should be able to learn a few things from each other :)
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Rite guy's when is this happening?
Next weekend is good for me either Friday into Saturday or Saturday into Sunday. The following weekend is also good at the minute.
Matthew
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Rite guy's when is this happening?
Next weekend is good for me either Friday into Saturday or Saturday into Sunday. The following weekend is also good at the minute.
Matthew
Saturday into Sunday would suit me best, maybe 11/12 June?
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I think we'd be wiser waiting til the weather brightened up. God knows when that will be. But June sounds good.
Just to let yous know I'm bringing some equipment in case everything does go arse up. I'l try not to use it and build my own.
As Baden Powell said: "Be prepared" :P **Sources indicate that LandyLiam told Baden Powell to say this and hence is the mastermind behind the Scouting movement.**
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As Baden Powell said: "Be prepared"
actually that was me :P
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I shall correct my post then :P
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Just a quick note - to save any confusion I've split this topic into two threads. One is for the NI-Wild Survival Night and the other is for Greyfox's offer of a Bushcraft Skills Day (http://www.ni-wild.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2071.0) in Carnfunnock to teach the basics to those interested. Of course they both go hand in hand, but it's just to save anyone turning up in nothing but a loin cloth at Carnfunnock :D
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Just a quick note - to save any confusion I've split this topic into two threads. One is for the NI-Wild Survival Night and the other is for Greyfox's offer of a Bushcraft Skills Day in Carnfunnock to teach the basics to those interested. Of course they both go hand in hand, but it's just to save anyone turning up in nothing but a loin cloth at Carnfunnock .
Why not ask are friends at Carnfunnock to set up a night out in the woods, let them tell us what to bring and see how its done by the pro,s. While will all learn and have fun at the same time.