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[Michelle]

Basically our wee kayak club at the uni www.uucc.webs.com have a bit of an issue

We have hired out various pools to run pool sessions over the winter so our  wee novice bums dont turn blue and we can practice our rolls in peace knowing our toes wont fall off.

The evils at Sports Union have told us that we can not give fellow members a lift to the pool unless we have business insurance on our cars.
This is more a no no if we decide we would like to bring a spray deck or two and paddles (we didnt even mention boats!)

Does anyone know the in's and outs of car insurance better than I?  This is crucifying the club as many students dont have cars and rely on other club members for a lift.

Thanks loads

M

[RedLeader]

That sounds like utter nonsense. Driving there and back is unconnected with what you're doing while you're there. Sounds like another case of PC gone mad..

[surfnscenic]

Most insurance policies state that cover is valid for Social, Domestic and Pleasure.  Business Use usually refers to anything carried in or on the vehicle for payment or reward.  What you are doing is offering a lift to like minded people to enjoy a sporting event as opposed to a business venture = SOCIAL/PLEASURE? 

However, I would urge that you speak with your individual insurance company who are best placed to give a definitive answer so as to avoid your insurance cover being declared null and avoid in the event of an incident leading to a claim by a third party.

I wish you well and really hope that your insurance company come down on your side so you can give a couple of things to the Sports Union.

[simon]

What exactly is the company mentioned insuring you for?

[Damp Colin]

I've had business insurance for years for my work as i have to drive clients about at times. Doesnt cost very much more than your normal fully comp when your renewing your insurance you just tell them that you want business insurance added. I havent seen much of a difference since i started using it. 

[ulsterwalker]

Surely the problem is with the sports union? If they are giving you a grant and specifying this type on insurance then maybe you're just screwed no matter what the insurance policy states?

Can you not just tell them to do one? I could understand if it were for a minibus or the like but for personal cars that sounds ludicrous, surely every other club has the same issue though, I'd ask around!

[simon]

Ah, see there is a point of confusion. I read "Sports Union" as a specialist insurer, whereas Ulsterwalker thinks it means the organising body. Re-reading it I think his interpretation is right, in which case my earlier question is nonsense .... but not as much nonsense as needing business insurance!

[Michelle]

The sports union is part of the students union who look after all the sports clubs including the kayak club.

They give us a pittance based on the amount of members we have.  I just wanted to see what everyone felt about this basically they are telling us that to give someone a lift to a club event requires club members to have business insurance -which in my opinion is an arse.  I give my friends a lift to the gym at home with there kit and it doesnt require business insurance.

I'm calling my insurers tomorrow they are fairly dead on fingers crossed. I'll be asking (in writing) for the universities policy on it too, its probably some busy body reading to much into things.

Just a bit ragged, we have just got the club back on its feet and everytime we try to organise something they are on our case.

[Michelle]

As for minibuses lets not even go there! Another story in itself!

[LandyLiam]

Driving there and back is unconnected with what you're doing while you're there.

The club will be seen as a business so I can see where the insurance company is coming from. If the pool was deemed to be the normal place of work then I would imagine the normal "Travelling to work" policy work be ok, but if you are carrying equipment belonging to the club then that is a business use. I would imagine personal equipment would be ok though.

(i'm no insurance expert but still think i know more than a lot of the insurance clerks out there  )

[LennyJ1]

heres an idea why dont u pre agree with the people you will not give then a lift to the pool as that would be illegal and drop then of at the bottom of the road (u know just round the corner from the pool)

[simon]

So what you are saying is that the union gives you some money and gives you official sanction to operate as a university club and that they require club members to have business insurance if they are driving each other to the pool.

There are a number of things to consider here:
1. What is your legal responsibility and what are your responsibilities to the union.
2. What are the penalties for failing to meet your legal responsibilities and your responsibilities to the union.

If you are driving without valid insurance then (from memory) it could be 6 points and a very large fine BUT it is NOT the union that counts here. It is the insurers, the police and the courts. If you talk to your insurers and explain the situation and they are happy that the activity is covered under the social, domestic and pleasure policy then you ARE covered with valid insurance. Changing to business insurance is an extra cost for no extra benefit.

If the union doesn't accept that your insurers are happy that you have valid insurance, then the question is what sanctions they can place against you. These are always going to be less severe and have fewer consequences of failing to meet (and being caught) your legal obligations. Moreover, you have much more room to fight the requirement (i.e. proving that your insurers are covering you for that activity).

So my advice:
1. talk to your insurers and find out if you ARE insured (i.e. protect your own arse)
2. tackle the union with proof you are insured

It sounds to me that the union are trying to cover their arses by specifying business insurance just in case some policies do not cover the type of activity that you are undertaking. To be honest, it would not surprise me if some policies made specific reference and exclusion to "club commuting" so it is worth checking with your own insurer and getting anyone else who might be using their car to give lifts to also check with their insurer.

[Celt_Ginger]

The only definitive answer will come from your insurer. The Sports union will probably have, like everywhere else these days, loads of Armchair lawyers who firmly believe that their opinions are correct. Check with your insurers and ask for a ruling in writing.

[Michelle]

I just rang my insurance company- he basically laughed at me.

to summarise (as we suspected) - going to a club and transporting friends and some gear is not running a business. It falls under social domestic and pleasure.

If I charged my friend to travel - I would be a taxi and obviously I would need a licence and appropriate insurance.

Just waiting to hear back from sports union (again)

Thanks for your input everyone

[surfnscenic]

Michelle, that's good news, well done and keep paddling.

Keep us updated, please.

Thank you.

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