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Author Topic: New Forestry Byelaws - FINES FOR BEING IN A FOREST AFTER DARK - Please read  (Read 50631 times)

admin

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The Forestry Service has opened a consultation on proposed revisions to the byelaws that apply to their land. The byelaws are already pretty draconian with regard to restrictions on what you are permitted to do on forestry land but the new changes specifically ban being in one of their forests between sunset and sunrise.

Quote
The Forestry Act (NI) 2010 grants a public right of pedestrian access to forestry land, but this is of course subject to the Byelaws.  Byelaw 5 excludes access between sunset and sunrise, and also allows the Department to exclude or restrict the Public’s right of access to any part of the forestry land. Sometimes we will have to do this for health and safety, plant health, environmental or other reasons.

Quote
It is an offence to contravene any provision of these byelaws, and any person committing such an offence is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale, and in the case of a continuing oanffence, to a further fine not exceeding one-tenth of level 3 on the standard scale in respect of each day during which the offence is continued after conviction.

In essence, if these changes are allowed to pass then you will be subject to a fine for being in any Forestry Commission operated forests after dark. As a general rule of thumb, unless a forest is privately owned then it is covered by the Forestry Commission so that applies to the bulk of Northern Ireland forests. At very least this would mean you would be fined for walking your dog / allowing your children to play in late afternoon in the winter as the sun would have set. You would also not be able to access the Mournes from Newcastle any time after sunset as the only routes in are all through Forestry land.

As a group, we feel that we are already heavily restricted by draconian and unbureaucratic laws covering how we are allowed to enjoy ourselves on our own tax funded public land. Access is already severely restricted and wild camping is largely outlawed. This change would now mean that we can't even enjoy large areas of Northern Ireland in the evenings for any reason. We appreciate that small elements of the populace can cause problems in forests but that seems to be a poor reason to have a blanket ban and that education and sensible enforcement of practical and fair laws are the only ways to protect our open spaces for legitimate use.

Here are a few thoughts on what these changes will mean:
* The sun sets at 4pm in winter so you wouldn't be allowed in a forest in late afternoon for any legitimate reason, even to walk your dog or let the children play.
* Access to the Mournes would be severely restricted as the main, easiest routes in/out are from Newcastle through forests. Restricting access to the Mournes is foolish as they are a huge tourist attraction.
* Restricting access to forests will hinder attempts to encourage young people to spend time constructively outside.
* Banning all activities after sunset is far too draconian. If there is a problem activity that needs curtailed then it should be targeted directly.
* The government are continually complaining about how children don't get enough exercise. What do you expect if you keep them penned in towns and ban them from public places in the evenings.
* Everyone complains about kids hanging around the streets at night. Where else are they supposed to go when places like the tax funded public forests are so heavily restricted.
* These are public forests and we have a basic right to use them sensibly at any time. Full stop!

What do we suggest?
We appreciate that complaining about change without constructive suggestion is pointless so this is what we recommend. Don't restrict access, open it! Allow people to use forests when they want for whatever they want. Humans are outdoors animals, we aren't designed to sit at desks, we're designed to be upright and outside in the fresh air. Corralling people in urban areas just  causes stress and strain and that's one of the reasons youths cause so much trouble - boredom. Kids are better camping in a forest learning to cook and live outdoors than they are hanging around your street corner. Just as in all areas of life, they just need educated in how to be responsible.
Will opening access stop malicious kids lighting fires - probably not. Will banning people from forests stop malicious fires - obviously not. Do you think someone willing to start a fire that could endanger lives is worried about a potential fine? What are the chances that a ranger would have any success even trying to get details to enforce the fine. However, with open access and forests full of people the community helps solve these problems. The Government can't afford to have the forests adequately patrolled but when they are heavily used by local folk then it's much harder for people to cause trouble when the concerned public are around to keep watch. However, when the forests are empty of the people who use the area sensibly the miscreant element will be able to run riot and the threat of fines wont stop them.

Groups like NI-Wild regularly help clean and clear outdoors spaces and you can always guarantee that everywhere we go we bring more rubbish home than we create ourselves. Once you ban us from the forests we wont be there to help maintain them and you can be absolutely sure that we wont be doing any conservation work in forests to which we are not allowed access. The government might manage to make some money in fines but it wont even be close to covering the cost of the thousands of local volunteers they usually have helping out.

The bottom line is blanket bans are always a bad idea and politicians are incredibly lazy to make perfectly reasonable behaviour illegal because they can't be bothered finding a better solution! I have a son and I'm ashamed that in Northern Ireland I can't legally take him to the woods and teach him how to live outdoors the same way my Father taught me.

Please contact the Department of Agriculture and Rural Development (DARD) to voice your concerns on this topic. If the public does not react then this byelaw will pass automatically - if you sit back and hope that other people react to this then you will be part of the reason that we can't use our own forests any more!

What can you do?
Facebook
Please go here and "Like" this campaign. Please encourage all your friends to do the same. Facebooks is big these days and campaigns can get some serious traction!
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fight-fining-us-for-being-in-a-forest-after-dark-in-Northern-Ireland/136767126399001

Press Contact:
Please contact your local newspaper and point them to this post, some press coverage would be very helpful.

Governmental Contact
The only way this will change is if plenty of people contact those in power that are making these decisions.
Please contact these people:
Jan Davidson (jan.davidson@dardni.gov.uk) who is the the official contact for the consultation.
Please also contact Michelle O'Neill (michelle.oneill@mla.niassembly.gov.uk) who is the DARD Minister.
Also contacting your own MP is a great idea - the more people we complain to, the higher likelihood of us making a difference (you can find your MP here http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/members/constmap_res.htm).

Here is a sample letter you can send or email (thanks to http://www.mtbrider.com). Obviously replace the {} with your own comment!


Jan Davidson
Department of Agriculture and Rural Development
Policy & Legislation Branch, Forest Service
Room 20
Dundonald House
Upper Newtownards Road
Ballymiscaw
Belfast BT4 3SB

Dear Jan,

Consultation on Forestry Land Byelaws.

I am writing in response to calls for views on the above consultation, and have comments as follows:

Byelaw 5 (1) The right of access granted under section 31(1) of the Act is excluded between sunset and sunrise.

{insert comments here}

I trust these comments will be useful to the Department as part of the wider consultation, and I look forward to the Department’s response.

Yours sincerely,




------
Sources:
http://www.dardni.gov.uk/forestservice/microsoft_word_-_forestry_land_byelaws__northern_ireland__2011.pdf
http://www.dardni.gov.uk/forestservice/letter-byelaws.pdf

Thanks to MTBRider who were one of the first to publicise this.
http://www.mtbrider.com/content.php?31-Re-DARD-at-it-again

----

Please reply with your thoughts - it's important that we all get involved, even if it is just to add your voice!
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011 by admin »
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cerbera147

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More revenue collection for the powers than be  ::) >:(

I'll be posting some letters this afternoon :)

Perhaps you should send an email out to all NI-Wild members asking for their support :)
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The_Yank

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Your brother across the pond is standing with you... well technically I'm sitting.. but I'm going to send an email as well.

Public lands are Public, and should stay that way.
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Paul72

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More stupid laws from penpushers who just haven't a clue.  The amount of regulations in the UK saying you can't do this and you can't do that in relation to the outdoors is crazy.  We need something like the allemannsrett/allemansrätten that they have in Norway and Sweden where you have the constitutional right to roam and camp in the countryside.

If these new byelaws were passed could we challenge them under the Human Rights Act?  ::)
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DryBag

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  • every turn of the wheel is a revolution
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Is there a link to the facebook campaign?

admin

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It's in the post now, have been having some technical gremlins today!

This is it to save any scrolling:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fight-fining-us-for-being-in-a-forest-after-dark-in-Northern-Ireland/136767126399001

Is there a link to the facebook campaign?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011 by admin »
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Neiltoo

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Not sure I could be more angry about this - and there was me thinking we might get the sort of access they have in Scotland!!!

That facebook link doesnt work for me, I think you have a hash on the end that shouldnt be there.


http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fight-fining-us-for-being-in-a-forest-after-dark-in-Northern-Ireland/136767126399001
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011 by Neiltoo »
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Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups

admin

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Doh, more gremlins! Fixed now, join away!

That facebook link doesnt work for me, I think you have a hash on the end that shouldnt be there.
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binladenisdead

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admin

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KittyKatArmstrong

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It's also not possible to wild camp any more on Forestry land, I've just had to re-organise an entire DoE hike because they're going to have to camp at the official campsite at Gortin Glen instead of on the mountains  :(  If they want to walk off the official paths they will need to apply in advance and get official permission, compete with route maps.
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admin

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This sounds nuts - could you give us any more information - where you were supposed to be camping and who told you that you couldn't? Do the Forestry Service own any of the mountains?

It's also not possible to wild camp any more on Forestry land, I've just had to re-organise an entire DoE hike because they're going to have to camp at the official campsite at Gortin Glen instead of on the mountains  :(  If they want to walk off the official paths they will need to apply in advance and get official permission, compete with route maps.
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MikeD

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This email address is invalid.....

michelle.oneil@mla.niassembly.gov.uk
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KittyKatArmstrong

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When I check those grid refs in Mapyx they're in Bangor town, around High Street? Either you're going easy on the kids these days or my co-ords are up the left :)

We were supposed to be camping at (Sheet 13) 503 814 and 493 841.  We've been told by the DoE that we can't use either of these campsites as there is now no camping allowed by FS outside official designated campsites, so now the kids have to do their route then hike in to the main campsite every night.  Also we have to follow paths while on FS land.  What's the point of training the kids to do wild camping when they're not allowed to use their skills :(  
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011 by admin »
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Simon Barry

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Just a few thoughts...from over the sheugh.

Why are they instituting this - would I be correct in guessing the whole point is to dissuade access from Newcastle and is a reaction to the fires earlier this year?  More to the point - how big is the fine (the blurb mentions a scale...a scale of what) and who would enforce it...is it enforceable? Like, I can really see a forestry service ranger being parked up in the Donard car park at 5pm on a winter Saturday (not).

On the subject of wild-camping - dunno about DoE in NIron, but over here wildcamping for DoE is very frowned upon.  It is illegal without the landowners consent and there is only one area I know of (Dartmoor) where consent is given automatically/by byelaw - even there areas are limited to named spots. In certain areas (Peak District) wild-camping by anyone is absolutely forbidden (but you just get moved on, have no knowledge of anyone being fined).

I am kind of thinking - OK...Mmmm...not great, but would a Ranger be bothered with a group of smelly hairys tromping back into the carpark at 5 or 6 after a day out..when all everyone wants to do is nip up the road to the chippy or are they thinking of a group of disposable BBQ forest fire yobbos heading up the glen for a night's drinking?  After all, its a fine after conviction - not an on the spot job?

Your thoughts?

(Regardless...as a blanket ban I think it is retrograde step and am protesting)


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