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General => Gear Questions, Information, Reviews and Competitions => Topic started by: Rich.H on February 05, 2015

Title: Biolite owners
Post by: Rich.H on February 05, 2015: I have on order some parts which I am going to use to make a diy version of the biolite stove. Most of it is all by basic thermoelectric stuff so pretty simple. I am wondering a few things though and would appreciate if owners of the biolite can help out.

1. Does the stove have any sort of battery capacity to allow storage of energy? ( I am aware you still get a charge after the fire goes out, but that is a different thing entirely).
2. Does the stove have the fan just inside the charging unit or is there one at the base also?

If possible could someone see if the charging unit detaches from the main stove body so they could get some pictures of how it is all positioned inside, many thanks.
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Dowser on February 14, 2015: Hi Rich.H,

I'm only seeing your post now but I should be able to help you out. I have a Biolite and will trying and get the info you need, and a few photos, for you this evening.

My Biolite is one of the first released so there could possibly be a few updates/enhancements since then.

With regards to the fan... The only fan on the biolite is the one built into the detachable unit. There is no fan in the base.

What the storage capacity of the unit is I haven't a clue but will try and find out for you.
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Dowser on February 16, 2015: Quote from: Dowser on February 14, 2015
Hi Rich.H,
I'm only seeing your post now but I should be able to help you out. I have a Biolite and will trying and get the info you need, and a few photos, for you this evening.

Sorry Rich.H, I'd so much romancing to do, with it being Valentines Day, I never got round to getting you the photo's I promised. Will defo get them posted here tonight.

8)
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Rich.H on February 16, 2015: No big rush I know the sheep on the hills can get lonely. 8)
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Dowser on February 16, 2015: Quote from: Rich.H on February 16, 2015
No big rush I know the sheep on the hills can get lonely. 8)

They're happy for another year now :P
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Dowser on February 16, 2015: The power unit doesn't have any storage capacity for charging devices. Mine was put away with a full charge but did not start charging my phone when I plugged it in. The power stored in the unit is only for the fan. The fan was running well on the existing charge. Seems the unit only charges plugged in devices when it is receiving heat energy while the stove is lit.

Here's the pics... Hope they are useful:

(http://i.imgur.com/39o1j18.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/Aq0g4tM.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/Cw1wB1k.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/ZcYtWwM.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/SqTd1kK.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/YaCDAHn.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/3hsPD85.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/BiKeLlY.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/AGU53r3.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/hQMxGwi.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/bOHXPMF.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/wwA6Tk0.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/UB6b21f.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/JXTZXtc.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/PHZyQGC.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/by3MBLQ.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/u34gh1q.jpg)

8)
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Rich.H on February 16, 2015: Thanks for those it helps a fair bit. I noticed the power unit looks like it just has six screws to hold it together, are they just standard phillips etc? If so is there a chance you would be able to get a couple of pictures of the inside of it. From the way you describe things, it sounds like it is just a glorified version of a peltier unit but it would be interesting to see how they have mounted things inside the plastic part.
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Dowser on February 17, 2015: Quote from: Rich.H on February 16, 2015
Thanks for those it helps a fair bit. I noticed the power unit looks like it just has six screws to hold it together, are they just standard phillips etc? If so is there a chance you would be able to get a couple of pictures of the inside of it. From the way you describe things, it sounds like it is just a glorified version of a peltier unit but it would be interesting to see how they have mounted things inside the plastic part.

Aye, they are just standard Phillips screws, but 4 of them are buried deep in the casing. I will see if I have a long enough screw driver tonight to get at them and see if I can let you see its guts.
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Dowser on February 18, 2015: Here's the insides:

(http://i.imgur.com/ukAVgQd.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/o3pKkPr.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/Frg6WuT.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/nAr3z1b.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/teNguZl.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/6ZDs7fe.jpg)

8)
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: RedLeader on February 19, 2015: Stove carnage! Did you have many bits left over afterwards ::)
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Dowser on February 19, 2015: Quote from: RedLeader on February 19, 2015
Stove carnage! Did you have many bits left over afterwards ::)

Fortunately, it all went back together again no probs :P

Did leave me wonder why it cost me £120 because there really is nothing to it!!! Opening it up also explains why there is no storage capacity for charging devices when it's not burning... the Battery is very small and dedicated to holding a charge for the fan motor only so that the stove is easily lit each time.

The way around the lack of storage capacity is to buy a usb back up battery pack and charge it from the stove. I got a very good one from Lidl a couple of months back which will due the job perfectly. This one, only in black: http://www.offerscheck.co.uk/silvercrest-power-bank/lidl/2014/kw-50/228078

(http://i.imgur.com/V6WKT88.jpg)

8)
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Rich.H on February 19, 2015: Just to be a pain is there a chance you could get a shot of or read off the writing on the blue cylinder inside? Just for not I don't think it is a battery as you said but more likely just a large capacitor, it would make sense and solves a problem in a neat way. The charge being put out by the peltier device will tend to fluctuate with the amount of heat differential and as such would not be great for charging something like a phone. You would find it would keep coming on and going off charge as if someone was pulling the cable every coupe of minutes etc. Using a big cap like this means it can store the charge for a short time and help regulate the flow to ensure the phone gets a constant 5v charge.
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Dowser on February 19, 2015: Quote from: Rich.H on February 19, 2015
Just for not I don't think it is a battery as you said but more likely just a large capacitor, it would make sense and solves a problem in a neat way.

Nope, it's a lithium ion battery!

Similar to these but with a 650mAh instead of the 1200mAh. It's good to know, should I ever need to replace the battery or want to upgrade it.

(http://i.imgur.com/bL80acO.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/3usS56N.jpg)

8)
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: RedLeader on February 19, 2015: Is that silvercrest charger capable or charging an iPad? I have a 10,000Mah one I got from Amazon that I've been very impressed with but it was pricier and probably heavier too. Charging phones it lasts for ages but one iPad charge nearly depletes it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BJCHH36?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

Quote from: Dowser on February 19, 2015
Quote from: RedLeader on February 19, 2015
Stove carnage! Did you have many bits left over afterwards ::)

Fortunately, it all went back together again no probs :P

Did leave me wonder why it cost me £120 because there really is nothing to it!!! Opening it up also explains why there is no storage capacity for charging devices when it's not burning... the Battery is very small and dedicated to holding a charge for the fan motor only so that the stove is easily lit each time.

The way around the lack of storage capacity is to buy a usb back up battery pack and charge it from the stove. I got a very good one from Lidl a couple of months back which will due the job perfectly. This one, only in black: http://www.offerscheck.co.uk/silvercrest-power-bank/lidl/2014/kw-50/228078

(http://i.imgur.com/V6WKT88.jpg)

8)
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Dowser on February 19, 2015: Quote from: RedLeader on February 19, 2015
Is that silvercrest charger capable or charging an iPad? I have a 10,000Mah one I got from Amazon that I've been very impressed with but it was pricier and probably heavier too. Charging phones it lasts for ages but one iPad charge nearly depletes it.

10,000mAh is impressive, and that's a cracking price at £18.99 :o

The Silvercrest one would only be good enough for a phone. It's got an unimpressive 2600mAh :'(
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: RedLeader on February 19, 2015: Still, if it gets you through a weekend trip it would be fine. Will it do a full iPhone charge from empty?

Quote from: Dowser on February 19, 2015
Quote from: RedLeader on February 19, 2015
Is that silvercrest charger capable or charging an iPad? I have a 10,000Mah one I got from Amazon that I've been very impressed with but it was pricier and probably heavier too. Charging phones it lasts for ages but one iPad charge nearly depletes it.

10,000mAh is impressive, and that's a cracking price at £18.99 :o

The Silvercrest one would only be good enough for a phone. It's got an unimpressive 2600mAh :'(
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Dowser on February 19, 2015: Quote from: RedLeader on February 19, 2015
Still, if it gets you through a weekend trip it would be fine. Will it do a full iPhone charge from empty?

It says it will but seeing is believing! I saw it in Lidl back in December and picked it up for the Christmas camp. It's been lying amongst my camping gear ever since and has never been tested :'(

Will maybe have a play with it tonight as it's the first night in a week that I should be getting home from work before 10pm
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Rich.H on February 19, 2015: Well that is me surprised on the battery front, although the paltry 650mah has me still thinking it it used as a regulator. The fact it is only a 3.6v means there is possibly a small stepper circuit to shift it all to 5v. The 650mah would be enough to then hold a charge long enough so the circuit doesn't get totally drained every few minutes, obviously it would be pathetic as far as actually trying to charge anything from.

As for the other battery packs shown here I would urge caution to folks. Pretty much all of them are made of the same thing. The main circuit which m has all the charging cleverness, then an amount of 18650 lithium cells. Depending on the quality of these a 10k battery pack could vary as much as 3-4k in Ah, more often than not if you consider a 10k pack to actually only be able to hold around 8k you will be fine. It is rare to find any of these packs with 18650's that actually hold the amount they have printed on each cell, the only real way to check them is to measure them through a full discharge cycle.

I am thinking now though that perhaps chucking in an old phone battery could be better than the big cell used in the Biolite, even old keypad phones have cells in the 1500mah range and they tend to be smaller with a overcharge protection circuit built in. Hell to drop the weight further you could even use a couple of 500 li-po cell packs.
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Dowser on February 19, 2015: Good info there Rich.H

Keep us posted on how your project is progressing. If you can put together something similar to the Biolite I would be interested in a component list.

The Biolite is a great idea and I plan to use it to keep charge in my phone for extended trips but, I feel the burning chamber is a bit small and it clogs up and smoothers itself very easily. Keeping it hot enough to power the thermal charging thing that sticks through into the chamber can be quite a task :(
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Rich.H on February 19, 2015: The problem with peltier units is not so much as how hot you can get one side, but the temperature differential between the two sides. As long as the warm side is around 100c hotter than the cold side then most small units should give you around 4.5-5v at 0.5A. The hardest part of them is making sure the cold side shifts hot air away from the unit fast enough to keep it cool, generally it involves either huge efficient heat sinks or monster fans.

An ironic twist is that you could of been trying to shovel more and more fuel in with the idea that hotter means better, but if the unit was not shifting heat fast enough from the cold side then you are just wasting fuel. From an electric standpoint only you are far better off having a tiny control fire to reach a reasonable temperature at one side, yet cool enough to allow the cold side chance to shift the heat away.
Title: Re: Biolite owners
Post by: Dowser on February 19, 2015: Quote from: Rich.H on February 19, 2015
An ironic twist is that you could of been trying to shovel more and more fuel in with the idea that hotter means better, but if the unit was not shifting heat fast enough from the cold side then you are just wasting fuel. From an electric standpoint only you are far better off having a tiny control fire to reach a reasonable temperature at one side, yet cool enough to allow the cold side chance to shift the heat away.

More great info Rich, and yeap... I was shovelling the fuel in like a good 'un! It would have been nice of Biolite to have included that handy fact/tip in the manual.

I had no idea how the unit actually worked, but now, between what you have told me and what I found out from opening it up, all has become clear. The fan seems to have been designed to fulfil a dual purpose. The obvious one is to blow oxygen into the burning chamber to assist the fire. But, after opening the unit up and seeing the design of the fan I have discovered its second purpose which you have already pointed out. Because the top of the fan is open, and not sealed, it is drawing its air in through the top vent on the unit and over the heat sinks/cooling blades, therefore creating an airflow through the blades. Obviously this air is then heated slightly as it passes over the blades and this will also assist the flames as warm air is bound to work better than cold damp air. That's possibly a triple purpose then, and not a dual purpose ???

Now that I know how it actually works, hopefully I will be able to work it more efficiently and get a lot more use out of it :D

Thanks Rich