Northern Ireland Outdoors Forum - Hiking, camping and more
Outdoor Activities => Northern Ireland Camping and Bushcraft => Topic started by: thatshandy86 on June 04, 2014
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I'm gathering up gear and equipment needed for a weekend hike and I've basically been trawling the forum and doing some generic Google searching on the recommended or staple kit for a hike.
One of the things that always stands out with me is gas stove or trangia for cooking. I'm wondering though, if you're certain you'll have a small campfire on the go, is this really necessary?
Andy
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Hi There
I have used both stoves and wood fires in the past and the main problem with the fire is that it blackens your pots. The smoke leaves a sticky black residue on them that is hard to remove and will ruin the inside of your rucksack. Also, you need to be sure that you are allowed to light a fire at your chosen camp and that wood will actually be available. Admittedly a stove is extra weight but it does give the reliability of a instant clean source of heat.
Fred
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Smear the outside of the pots with washing up liquid before putting them on the fire and the black will wash off easily...
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I guys, great info here thanks :)
For a 2 day hike though, i figure i'll only really need to cook once, as all meals around it can be prepacked or not require a heat source.
That being said, I was considering just bringing a small grill rack, which I can wrap in a plastic bag and strap to the outside of my pack when i'm done and transporting back home.
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For a lightweight overnighter I sometimes just take a trangia burner and some tin foil. The pot can be balanced on rocks above the burner and the tin foil can protect the setup from the wind. This setup is fine for a quick brew or one pot meal.
A small campfire can be nice if the site is safe and if you can find fuel. Having a trangia burner backup in your bag won't add a lot of weight.
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I'd recommend a Trangia Mini, it's lightweight and compact, everything fits inside the pot, and you get a frying pan, burner, pot and wind-shield. You can't always rely on wood or fuel being around and it saves lugging firelogs with you, it's great for firing up a quick brew when you take a rest stop from trekking around the hills. Also, in the morning, it saves relighting a fire just to get a brew on or cook some grub, especially if it's raining.
Amazon: http://goo.gl/nZKwW
Cotswold: http://goo.gl/wbN66Y
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Thanks for all this guys, I guess the general consensus is - 'prepare for both', and I'd rather have, than be without!
I'd recommend a Trangia Mini, it's lightweight and compact, everything fits inside the pot, and you get a frying pan, burner, pot and wind-shield. You can't always rely on wood or fuel being around and it saves lugging firelogs with you, it's great for firing up a quick brew when you take a rest stop from trekking around the hills. Also, in the morning, it saves relighting a fire just to get a brew on or cook some grub, especially if it's raining.
Amazon: http://goo.gl/nZKwW
Cotswold: http://goo.gl/wbN66Y
Ace! Thanks specimanYak, something like this i definitely wouldn't begrudge carrying :)
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I love my MSR Dragonfly. A little bulkier than the mini Trangia but boils water super quick and simmers with excellent precision. Check it out - http://www.cascadedesigns.com/msr/stoves/gourmet-cooking/dragonfly/product
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That's a lovely bit of kit. Probably a little more on the un-necessary side for myself though, but it's bookmarked for the future when I get a few more expeditions under my belt :)
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Cooking method heavily depends on the food your eating. If its packets of sausages etc then providing you can do so use a campfire. It means you don't have to lug around heavy cooking gear or fuel. Otherwise the general pros and cons to each as I view them are.
Campfires: Free fuel
No cleaning of gear
Multipurpose
Good for group chats etc
Requires a nearby source of fuel
Requires careful care and setup for a long burn
Can be weather dependent
Takes time to correctly clear up
Trangia
Meth Stove:Low cost starting price
Can get compact all in kits
Requires little to no cleaning
Can be used to cook just about anything
Slow compared to other carry fuel types
Heavy
Needs careful fuel storage to prevent spills
Can be a tricky in windy areas without additional protection
Gas stoves:Fast cooking & instant heat
Has near zero cleanup
Works anywhere anytime
Can be used inside a shelter
Limited in food types without extra equipment
Can be expensive initial cost
Can involve bulky storage.
There are obviously lots of other points about each and no doubt many folks on here can demonstrate how an individual brand or model doesn't suffer from a problem or such. But in general you find this should cover most aspects of cooking methods. Your best bet is to first decide what food you want and where you will be doing your cooking, then tailor your method to best suit your needs.
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Cheers Rich! That's a great help.
You're absolutely right about the food though.. I originally started the thread with the idea of bringing along sausages and other easily bbq'd food which was the reason for the ask.
I'd like to cook other foods on down the line, and i've got a fair picture in my head now of what kit i'll need in certain scenarios :)
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Ahh, the age old quandary for the modern camper ;D If there's one topic we love around here it's stoves!
I go open fire if there's a fire about. I always keep the pots in a plastic bag to stop them dirtying other gear. Generally if there's a fire, there's usually water about so cleaning them can be more straightforward. Also, we often just carry a grill and cook meat directly on the fire if it's to eat with bread or similar.
With no fire there's pros to all stove types. Gas is handy and light but you're at the mercy of half empty canisters and they're not great in the snow but have an easily controlled flame. Trangia/meths is very handy but slow and it's hard to manipulate the heat and they can perform poorly in strong winds. I use both depending on mood.
There's a good Trangia writeup here:
http://www.ni-wild.co.uk/blog/2011/06/the-big-trangia-review/
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I think you have the same mentality as myself RedLeader!
I just thought i'd get a second opinion on it, as I i might have overlooked some situation where a stove would be vital.
I don't plan on straying from a path where there won't be access to readily available materials for a camp fire, and being the lover of all things BBQ'd i'd be happy to eat flame grilled foods the whole time......
...if only there were a surplus of wild boar roaming the land, the camp fire could easily be modded to a spit ;o)
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Oh yes, can't beat meat on an open fire. We've done a few legs of lamb hung over the fire in our time and it's always been epic.
http://www.ni-wild.co.uk/forum/meets-places-trips-and-reviews/easter-wild-camp-annalong-wood-67-april-2013/20/?
(http://i.imgur.com/ARCWaER.jpg)
Personally I'd always avoid BBQs as I'd either be in a forest with a fire or in the hills where I'd defo not want the weight.
I think you have the same mentality as myself RedLeader!
I just thought i'd get a second opinion on it, as I i might have overlooked some situation where a stove would be vital.
I don't plan on straying from a path where there won't be access to readily available materials for a camp fire, and being the lover of all things BBQ'd i'd be happy to eat flame grilled foods the whole time......
...if only there were a surplus of wild boar roaming the land, the camp fire could easily be modded to a spit ;o)
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Of course ;)
If i was packing a BBQ, I may as well pack a stove...
And sure no better BBQ-grill than the lovely wood burning campfire itself!
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Truth is I'd usually still bring a stove to a campfire camp, even just for coffee or to save lighting a fire the next morning.
Either a Vango Compact or Trangia Mini.
(http://defd230db96761500ca7-61c6d5aeae250d28854ed3e240a16b15.r17.cf3.rackcdn.com/Products/10607-220610093334555937023.jpg)
Vango Compact is superlight gas stove.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/412vkDv2HQL._SY300_.jpg)
Trangia mini is a solo cookset
Though I usually bring the Trangia Mini pot/pan with any stove because they're an excellent size.
Of course ;)
If i was packing a BBQ, I may as well pack a stove...
And sure no better BBQ-grill than the lovely wood burning campfire itself!
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Oh I have the Trangia mini in my Amazon wishlist already thanks to specimanYak.
I'm not sure i'll need it for my first couple of walks just yet though, as campfires seem to hold enough worth for all the cooking I intend to do.
I look forward to the day I can do a longer trek that justifies* the need for a bacon and egg sandwich in the morning though!
*every scenario justifies a bacon and egg sandwich.
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Nothing like a bacon and sausage bap first thing in the morning, especially cooked on an open fire. Though at this time of year open fire camps get few and far between because of the midges. It's more comfortable to get a bit higher up away from the buggers with a stove for cooking and firelog for comfort.
Oh I have the Trangia mini in my Amazon wishlist already thanks to specimanYak.
I'm not sure i'll need it for my first couple of walks just yet though, as campfires seem to hold enough worth for all the cooking I intend to do.
I look forward to the day I can do a longer trek that justifies* the need for a bacon and egg sandwich in the morning though!
*every scenario justifies a bacon and egg sandwich.
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The midges are something I hadn't considered actually.... another +1 in the stove column then!
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Oh I have the Trangia mini in my Amazon wishlist already thanks to specimanYak.
I'm not sure i'll need it for my first couple of walks just yet though, as campfires seem to hold enough worth for all the cooking I intend to do.
I actually think the trangia triangle (http://www.trangia.se/english/2917.trangia_accessories.html) looks better than the mini trangia.
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Just a note about the Trangia stoves, be sure to check they are the full brass burners. The older style stoves came with a good heavy brass burner that was near bomb proof. I don't know about the newer ones though and many clones tend to have cheaper thin metal burners that can be prone to springing leaks.
Unless you can be sure you are getting a good full brass burner it can be better to buy one of the cheaper clones (you can get them for around £15 for a full set). Then look on ebay in military sections for the older style Trangia, just throw away the cheap kit burner and swap out the surplus one.
The older heavy brass burners also tend to hold the heat better and thus act to warm the meths which helps them stay lit longer when the wind starts up.
Here is an example of the older style http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Swedish-trangia-5-piece-cooking-set-/181324837630?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item2a37cd72fe (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Swedish-trangia-5-piece-cooking-set-/181324837630?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item2a37cd72fe) but obviously don't go spending this kind of money on a new set. Just get a surplus one for a fraction of the cost as they tend to be bomb proof and last centuries anyway.
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Thanks guys.
Rich, from looking at the site, is the trangia triangle essentially just the mini with an aluminium wind sheild/pot stand?
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Not quite, the triangle is a no frills ultralight Trangia model. It is an all in one windshield, pot stand, and burner holder. Not sure if it folds or clips together but it should be able to pack down so you could fit it easily in your pocket.
Just make sure you look through the entire description before ordering one of them though as some cheeky retailers will sell you it without a burner, but forget to mention this until you scour through all the details. If that is the case you can get the burners on their own, but make sure it is an official Trangia one. Cheaper ones suffer from possible leaks as I mentioned and they may not be the same dimensions as the Trangia, last thing you want is to have them both arrive and find out the burner now pokes up above the pot stand.
If you wanted to go the slightly slower route and you have the tools and know how you can makeup copies of the firebox/bushbox style cookers. They are basically a few small sheet cutouts with various holes for supports and vents that pack away flat, and clip together for use. Most have a vented base and ash pan so you can use either any kind of combustible or set a meth stove into them. I keep meaning to knock one up as a test to see how good they are as I can never justify some of the silly prices they retail at.
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Well, to throw a spanner in the works, I took a dander in round Cotswold's today...
...and, after seeing and hearing about this, I've pretty much fallen in love -
http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/msr-whisperlite-international-combo-stove-97210136?id_colour=180
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:o :o :o :o :o How much??? It's also pretty darn heavy considering what it actually is. I guess from the description it does not include any gas so that weight it just the burner alone. Many of the tiny adapter type gas stoves can come in under the weight including their gas bottles.
Ok granted it can burn quite a few different things, but then why would you be lugging around bottles of petrol anyway? I know MSR like to overprice a lot of their kit when you compare it to similar models from other brands but I just struggle to comprehend where the value is in that. You could get yourself almost any other gas adapter type stove on the market and still have enough cash left for a near lifetime of fuel.
I am curious though, what exactly were you told about this product that makes it stand so far above all others on the market?
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Well, it's a multi-fuel burner for one, allowing you to refuel with what you'd like and to what level you'd like..
The fuel bottle that you carry is what actually attaches to the stove itself, where I'd be carrying a stove and a bottle of meths with a trangia.
I have no way to compare, only than the word of the salesman, but it's apparently unbelievably fuel efficient compared to most gas stoves. (I am skeptical of this)
Comes with a compact wind shield, that you'd only need when igniting then burns with a windproof gas-like flame.
Larger hob/plate area for more of a range of cooking utensils.
Weight is only slightly heavier than the much smaller Trangia mini, I would actually be inclined to think that listed weight is fuel included. The thing's as light as a feather!
Again, this is all coming from someone trying to sell it to me, I welcome any 'fact' debunking or reinforcement you all might have :)
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Looked a little further into it as the Cotswold link was sparse in real descriptions to say the least. On second glance it does look like a handy good bit of kit, however there are some issues you would need to consider.
First up this is not an instant turn on stove due to how it works you have to pump the bottle to build pressure and prime the pan properly before you can get it lit, this would likely be slightly different with each fuel source. Also there are quite a lot of different parts to this setup and while they advertise it as easily serviced in the field, I think that really means "it's easy to get in and clean", I doubt any of the parts can be actually serviced unless your carrying spares. Added complexity always means increased failure risk. Finally it is a single flame without any real control, it's either on or off. Great for boiling water, not so hot for various cooking methods.
However it is versatile and you could easily do some math to see what fuel types gives you the greatest btu output per 100ml so you maximise efficiency for weight. In addition the option to just refill the bottle is nice and depending on the durability could end up cheaper over the lifetime, compared to buying gas bottles etc.
Finally about the weight, the 441g is most likely to be the total weight of the burner and the bottle combined, this may include the bag too but otherwise I would say your probably looking at around 500g tops. You then have to add to that 500ml (or more if you get a bigger bottle) of fuel. Just using either petrol or kerosine (haven't a clue about white gas density) you will add around another 500g. So all in your going to be lugging around 1kg as just your cooker.
But it is still over a ton for what is really just a small folding stove, so it comes down to how deep your pockets are I guess. I'm inclined to agree with your skepticism about the fuel efficiency though as gas has long demonstrated itself to be one of the most efficient cooking fuels around.
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With regards to the maintenance and cleaning, would that not be much the same for a gas stove, considering they use the same mechanism and setup?
I'm glad I'm hearing all the out for a future purchase and not for immediate need... I really am to-ing and fro-ing with this one!
Expense-wise, cheaper is always better. but I don't want to be buying too cheap where 'you get what you pay for' comes into effect, and it's just wasted money.
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check out Sportsdirect - £79.99. I still think if you are in this market, the Dragonfly is your best option. Good luck
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With regards to the maintenance and cleaning, would that not be much the same for a gas stove, considering they use the same mechanism and setup?
Gas stoves need little to no looking after, unless you happen to spill stuff on them just a quick wipe off is all. If you ever pack them away wet then just be sure to unpack them and dry and treat once home and your fine. All they are anyway is just an elaborate valve with an atomiser on the end so there is not much to fail.
Expense-wise, cheaper is always better. but I don't want to be buying too cheap where 'you get what you pay for' comes into effect, and it's just wasted money.
If you are using gas then you can get a stove for as little as £10-£15 that will happily last you at least a year or two of average use with sensible looking after. At that rate you need to get at least 10 years out of the msr with no part replacements to be breaking even. No doubt though the cheap gas stoves happily last longer and someone here may well be able to confirm that.
Meth stoves again will be cost effective since the only part you need to spend real cash on is a good quality burner base, Pot/pans etc you can use anything you like from pound shop tin foil rubbish all the way to diamond encrusted titanium. It means they are probably the most flexible system as you can just use parts specific to your own needs and finances.
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Thanks polrodger.
That, to be fair looks to be near enough the same as the Whisperlite. At a quick glance on google for a comparison it seems the Dragonfly has a benefit of full range of heating control over the whisperlite, but is 'too noisy'?
Everyones opinion on noise is different, in your opinion is it 'too' loud, or just louder than the average?
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With regards to the maintenance and cleaning, would that not be much the same for a gas stove, considering they use the same mechanism and setup?
Gas stoves need little to no looking after, unless you happen to spill stuff on them just a quick wipe off is all. If you ever pack them away wet then just be sure to unpack them and dry and treat once home and your fine. All they are anyway is just an elaborate valve with an atomiser on the end so there is not much to fail.
Expense-wise, cheaper is always better. but I don't want to be buying too cheap where 'you get what you pay for' comes into effect, and it's just wasted money.
If you are using gas then you can get a stove for as little as £10-£15 that will happily last you at least a year or two of average use with sensible looking after. At that rate you need to get at least 10 years out of the msr with no part replacements to be breaking even. No doubt though the cheap gas stoves happily last longer and someone here may well be able to confirm that.
Meth stoves again will be cost effective since the only part you need to spend real cash on is a good quality burner base, Pot/pans etc you can use anything you like from pound shop tin foil rubbish all the way to diamond encrusted titanium. It means they are probably the most flexible system as you can just use parts specific to your own needs and finances.
I would consider a cheaper gas stove, purely on the expense and that they're more windproof than the meth burners. Its just a pity that most aren't a self contained pot/pan/burner combo that packed neatly.
Going the gas route, i'd definitely consider that Vango Compact RedLeader posted.
Decisions decisions...
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The gas stove i've been using is the Jetboil Zip, it's a self contained unit where everything packs into the main cup, including the gas canister. Mine came with an adjustable pot support so i can use the pot from a Trangia Mini on it as well if needed.
http://www.jetboil.com/
http://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/jetboil-zip-cooking-system-97110088?id_colour=124
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I saw the Jetboils in there specimanYak, i was a bit put off though as I was told for the most part the jetboils are solely compatible with the mug that came packed with it.
The salesman also told me it's really only useful for cooking boil in the bag meals, whereas i'd like the flexibility of being able to use a small pan over the flame.
Have you tried a pan on it? If so, how does it cook?
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Thanks polrodger.
That, to be fair looks to be near enough the same as the Whisperlite. At a quick glance on google for a comparison it seems the Dragonfly has a benefit of full range of heating control over the whisperlite, but is 'too noisy'?
Everyones opinion on noise is different, in your opinion is it 'too' loud, or just louder than the average?
SOUNDS LIKE A JET ENGINE..........BRILLIANT :D
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SOUNDS LIKE A JET ENGINE..........BRILLIANT :D
How do you want your steak?
(http://brightcove.vo.llnwd.net/e1/pd/77374810001/77374810001_2238008839001_video-still-for-video-2237947091001.jpg?pubId=77374810001)
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If it comes with the adjustable pot stand, or you buy one separately, you'll be able to fit most pots or pans onto it. I mostly use it to boil water for tea, then use what water is left for cous-cous and Not-Dogs. The beauty of the system is its compactness and everything's together when it comes time to cook, just add water. :)
I saw the Jetboils in there specimanYak, i was a bit put off though as I was told for the most part the jetboils are solely compatible with the mug that came packed with it.
The salesman also told me it's really only useful for cooking boil in the bag meals, whereas i'd like the flexibility of being able to use a small pan over the flame.
Have you tried a pan on it? If so, how does it cook?
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If it comes with the adjustable pot stand, or you buy one separately, you'll be able to fit most pots or pans onto it. I mostly use it to boil water for tea, then use what water is left for cous-cous and Not-Dogs. The beauty of the system is its compactness and everything's together when it comes time to cook, just add water. :)
...but, as with every decision in life, one must consider the bacon.
Will it support bacon.
typical fuel pack, what is the Bacon Per Cannister (bpc).
These are highly important factors.
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If it comes with the adjustable pot stand, or you buy one separately, you'll be able to fit most pots or pans onto it. I mostly use it to boil water for tea, then use what water is left for cous-cous and Not-Dogs. The beauty of the system is its compactness and everything's together when it comes time to cook, just add water. :)
...but, as with every decision in life, one must consider the bacon.
Will it support bacon.
typical fuel pack, what is the Bacon Per Cannister (bpc).
These are highly important factors.
If you use a small gas stove you can just skewer your bacon of a stick then hold the gas can in your hand like a blow torch. Turn the heat down and start sizzling.
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If you use a small gas stove you can just skewer your bacon of a stick then hold the gas can in your hand like a blow torch. Turn the heat down and start sizzling.
Genius! :D
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Just a quick word of warning about the trangia triangle.
I used one of these on a very windy day in the Mournes and had a nasty flare up. I was also using a tin foil windscreen to protect the gap between the triangle and the pot. I think the huge airflow into the bottom burner combined with the windshield preventing heat escaping caused the burner to overheat and therefore made the problem worse. The short grass below the burner then also caught fire which made the problem even more serious. Luckily I was not using the triangle in my porch.
I'm sure that this would not have happened with a standard trangia windshield but this experience has demonstrated to me that even trangias should never be used close to a tent. Next time I'll probably not use the foil windshield or just remove it at the first sign of trouble to let the heat escape.