Topic: Rewilding (Read 37586 times)

Ed · « **Reply #15 on:** June 03, 2013 »

I went for a walk from Tollymore to commedagh and back with John one point last year, it involved a walk along the spinkwee back into Tollymore at the end - and the ferns were in full growth at the stage. It was a nice hot day and it was absolutely enchanting.

The big tall ferns and the smell in the air, you'd have thought you were in the set of jurassic park rather than the mournes - it was really interesting!

I'd say a re-wilded mourne would be a fascinating thing

twentyclicks · « **Reply #16 on:** June 04, 2013 »

Saw this story today, also of interest to this thread:

http://cairngormwanderer.wordpress.com/2013/05/26/a-60-year-experiment/

whoRya · « **Reply #17 on:** June 04, 2013 »

A bit closer (just about) to home, I came across some details of a rewilding project in the Nephin Beg range (Mayo). An area the size of 11000 hectares has been designated as a rewilding project. Some details here:

http://www.ukhillwalking.com/news/item.php?id=67919

http://www.coillte.ie/aboutcoillte/news/article/view/irelands-first-wilderness-project-launched/

sjh1 · « **Reply #18 on:** June 04, 2013 »

Quote from: whoRya on June 04, 2013

A bit closer (just about) to home, I came across some details of a rewilding project in the Nephin Beg range (Mayo). An area the size of 11000 hectares has been designated as a rewilding project. Some details here:

http://www.ukhillwalking.com/news/item.php?id=67919

http://www.coillte.ie/aboutcoillte/news/article/view/irelands-first-wilderness-project-launched/

This looks very interesting! Would love to see something similar in NI. Will maybe visit the area at some stage. Still, would like to see further details of their 15 year plan, government bodies often talk a good game but translating it into action is the problem..

sjh1 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 05, 2013 »

More on "Wild Nephin". An interesting and encouraging project.

http://www.self-willed-land.org.uk/articles/wild_nephin_project.pdf

"The long-term aim is to develop a matrix of wild habitats such as forest, bogland and other habitats that will have the potential to sustain their existence without further human intervention and provide homes for some of Ireland's rarest species."

Plans such as the development of naturalised forests through selective harvesting of conifers and clearance of invasive alien species (e.g. rhododendron) are good.

Only thing is, calling an area "wild" or "rewilded" and having glossy tourist-focused leaflets and launches, doesn't make the area wild. I see nothing in these plans about removing domestic grazing animals or reducing wild grazers to natural numbers! Also, is 15 years really long enough to transform a barren conifer plantation into naturalised broadleaf woodland? Maybe if they start the process native trees eventually take over but I'm not sure.

Nevertheless a good project and would be great to see similar in NI. In the Mournes it would be much simpler ... just remove the sheep from the high Mournes and patch up the wall so they can't get back in ... then watch as nature takes over!

twentyclicks · « **Reply #20 on:** June 05, 2013 »

Yes, it does seem like a more managed 'rewilding' that won't quite be the full spirit of the idea in our generation, but will be interesting none-the-less... and good to see Enda getting in on it, and the mention of a wider 1,000,000 ha European objective... perhaps enough impetus to see a similar site up here.

sjh1 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 22, 2013 »

Monbiot on sheep (not literally)...

http://www.monbiot.com/2013/05/30/sheepwrecked/

"Sheep have reduced most of our uplands to bowling greens with contours. Only the merest remnants of life persist. Spend two hours sitting in a bushy suburban garden and you are likely to see more birds and of a greater range of species than in walking five miles across almost any part of the British uplands. The land has been sheepwrecked."

... on the (simple) solution...

http://www.monbiot.com/2013/06/06/agricultural-hegemony/

"Er, scrapping Rule 12 of the European Union’s Good Agricultural and Environmental Condition code. This rule forces farmers to clear the land of “unwanted vegetation” if they want to claim their subsidy payments. It’s a policy which has caused the pointless, taxpayer-funded destruction of habitats all over the EU.

In other words, I’m suggesting that farmers should have a choice over whether or not they want to clear their land. If they don’t want to clear it or keep sheep on it, they can still claim their payments. Terrified yet?"

and on current conservation dogma...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/27/my-manifesto-rewilding-world

"Conservation sites must be maintained in what is called "favourable condition", which means the condition in which they were found when they were designated. More often than not this is a state of extreme depletion, the merest scraping of what was once a vibrant and dynamic ecosystem. The ecological disasters we call nature reserves are often kept in this depleted state through intense intervention: cutting and burning any trees that return; grazing by domestic animals at greater densities and for longer periods than would ever be found in nature. The conservation ethos is neatly summarised in the forester Ritchie Tassell's sarcastic question, "how did nature cope before we came along?""

Have to say it pains me to see so much sense written in The Guardian.

Ed · « **Reply #22 on:** June 22, 2013 »

Indeed SJH, and entirely absent of bizzaro handwringing over semantics.
Are you sure you found that in the graun ;-)

Monbiot is spot on here

sjh1 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 22, 2013 »

Quote from: Aragorn on June 22, 2013

Indeed SJH, and entirely absent of bizzaro handwringing over semantics.
Are you sure you found that in the graun ;-)

Monbiot is spot on here

Right that's it, I'm starting a new thread on the crack/craic debate (... and I really haven't got the time for it).

Found these Monbiot articles online, he's got a lot of stuff on rewilding. I've got his book "Feral" but haven't read it yet.

Ed · « **Reply #24 on:** June 22, 2013 »

Perhaps you misunderstood me mate.
I was referring to the Graun's penchant for handwringing over a microcosm of semantics.
I recently read a full article about a mother who refused to let her daughter join the girl guides because she didn't like the wording of the motto.

Rich.H · « **Reply #25 on:** June 22, 2013 »

Hate to be a cynic on this topic but sadly human reality kills all concept of rewilding. Our population is still growing at a scary rate, requiring more food which in turn needs more land. Thus money rules and drives governments to offer better cash rewards to farmers who agriculturally strip mine the land, without such folk start to starve (and who wants to be the PM dealing with a G8 country dying of hunger).

Any small green space that can be built on is being tossed through loopholes of legislation to provide more and more homes, meaning all "wild" areas are just nature reserves. The problem with these is they are nothing more than a few ponds, meadows and wooded spots carved up with gravel pathways for the townsfolk to come and "look at". Therein lies the issue, the H&S crew have got so neurotic about the potential harm little Johnny could come to if he tripped on a stick all our wild areas are hands off, you can't camp out (that disturbs the 1/4 of acre of wildland made by man), you can't light fires (one mistake means it all goes in half an hour), you can't take anything away (there's bugger all there to begin with so every stick counts).

Often I find myself thinking a lottery win for me would mean emigration to the states just so I could see real wild country before either I die or it's all gone.

However I think it could be possible but only if a commited group of folks could pool their resources to purchase as large an area of land as possible, however it would need to be free of any right of ways etc etc otherwise you end up subject to the same crazy H&S rules as everywhere else. Personally I say someone free snake pliskin

Wolf_Larson · « **Reply #26 on:** June 23, 2013 »

Quote from: Rich.H on June 22, 2013

Hate to be a cynic on this topic but sadly human reality kills all concept of rewilding. Our population is still growing at a scary rate, requiring more food which in turn needs more land. Thus money rules and drives governments to offer better cash rewards to farmers who agriculturally strip mine the land, without such folk start to starve (and who wants to be the PM dealing with a G8 country dying of hunger).

Any small green space that can be built on is being tossed through loopholes of legislation to provide more and more homes, meaning all "wild" areas are just nature reserves. The problem with these is they are nothing more than a few ponds, meadows and wooded spots carved up with gravel pathways for the townsfolk to come and "look at". Therein lies the issue, the H&S crew have got so neurotic about the potential harm little Johnny could come to if he tripped on a stick all our wild areas are hands off, you can't camp out (that disturbs the 1/4 of acre of wildland made by man), you can't light fires (one mistake means it all goes in half an hour), you can't take anything away (there's bugger all there to begin with so every stick counts).

Often I find myself thinking a lottery win for me would mean emigration to the states just so I could see real wild country before either I die or it's all gone.

However I think it could be possible but only if a commited group of folks could pool their resources to purchase as large an area of land as possible, however it would need to be free of any right of ways etc etc otherwise you end up subject to the same crazy H&S rules as everywhere else. Personally I say someone free snake pliskin

Well said mate !!

sjh1 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 23, 2013 »

Quote from: Aragorn on June 22, 2013

Perhaps you misunderstood me mate.
I was referring to the Graun's penchant for handwringing over a microcosm of semantics.
I recently read a full article about a mother who refused to let her daughter join the girl guides because she didn't like the wording of the motto.

Yes I did, apologies.

Regarding conservation organisations and plans the Mourne Mountains Landscape Partnership Plan is a prime example of confusion.

Page iv here http://www.mournelive.com/documentbank/uploads/MMLP%20LCAP%20Part%201.pdf has the overall vision which among other things dishearteningly suggests...
"Farmers and large landowners will be co-operating in using a range of techniques to clear scrub, keep invasive species at bay and maintain native plants in good condition as well as the iconic dry stone walls that criss-cross the area."

What it calls scrub (and in some cases invasive species) many would call natural vegetation. They specifically target things like bracken and gorse, both native species and gorse is an excellent habitat for nesting birds.

Some of the management techniques suggested for Annalong Wood (the cleared and burnt area) on page 118 (see here http://www.mournelive.com/documentbank/uploads/MMLP%20LCAP%20Part%202.pdf) are, "invasive clearance, grazing, cutting, seeding, prescribed burning". I was disappointed to see this Annalong Wood area is going to be managed at all. I was hoping to watch it regenerate naturally.

The report also suggests that the Mournes are both overgrazed and undergrazed. Overgrazed yes, but in terms of natural grazing levels to suggest anywhere in the Mournes is undergrazed is ludicrous.

Strangely after all the focus on clearance of natural vegetation there is this small section on page 122 (see here http://www.mournelive.com/documentbank/uploads/MMLP%20LCAP%20Part%202.pdf)...
"Parallel to this (protection of 'Mournes' Juniper), native tree species found in the Mourne uplands will be grown from seed, providing saplings for local landowners to reintroduce into areas which are not grazed, such as gullies and river islands."

Why clear natural regenerating vegetation from one area to artificially plant it in another?! All the best to whoever has to find ungrazed gullies and even river islands in the Mournes too. Maybe they will fence a few off but I doubt it.

This is all in a conservation report which aims to protect biodiversity (wildlife). All it is doing is preserving an artificial farmed landscape that is largely useless for wildlife.

sjh1 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 23, 2013 »

Quote from: Rich.H on June 22, 2013

Hate to be a cynic on this topic but sadly human reality kills all concept of rewilding. Our population is still growing at a scary rate, requiring more food which in turn needs more land. Thus money rules and drives governments to offer better cash rewards to farmers who agriculturally strip mine the land, without such folk start to starve (and who wants to be the PM dealing with a G8 country dying of hunger).

Although Monbiot's point is that the upland sheep-farms are not productive anyway. They provide very little food and are run at a loss. They're only sustainable through government grants. We could instead allow farmers to leave some of their land uncleared and ungrazed but still give them their grants. Monbiot doesn't suggest that productive lowland farms should be part of rewilding.

I agree with you on health and safety at nature reserves. Also all the neat paths and information panels. They are like parks or zoos.

sjh1 · « **Reply #29 on:** June 28, 2013 »

Interesting website here... http://www.rewildingeurope.com/

It would be great to see a Rewilding UK organisation set up.

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Author Topic: Rewilding (Read 37586 times)

Ed

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twentyclicks

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whoRya

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sjh1

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sjh1

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twentyclicks

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sjh1

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Ed

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sjh1

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Ed

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Rich.H

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Wolf_Larson

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sjh1

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sjh1

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sjh1

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