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Author Topic: Crack or craic?  (Read 20196 times)

KyleL

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Crack or craic?
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2013 »

Quote from: sjh1 on June 22, 2013
Cue the 'craicin', 'craicer post' nonsense...

It's not nonsense, the OP is nonsense. Words change, no need to get upset.

Prime example: Everyone has heard of "Mayday, Mayday..."; it's actually from the French "m'aidez" - meaning 'help me'. It sounds the same yet we have decided to steal the word and re-spell it.

Then there is colour and color, thanks to our American brothers.

Being a language expert just means bring in-tune with the way language is set up 'at-the-minute'. It was all different 100 years ago, and it will all be different in 100 years time. The idea that the Irish 'stole' the word and renamed it is probably correct, but what a nice world it would be if all we stole was words.

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Spud

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Crack or craic?
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2013 »
:)
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Ed

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Re: Crack or craic?
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2013 »
Pass the crack
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KyleL

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Crack or craic?
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2013 »

Quote from: Spud on June 22, 2013
:)

It's gold! I can't ignore gold can I?! :D
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clairebear

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Crack or craic?
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2013 »
So sjh1 what exactly is ur job title?.  Is correcting grammar like this how you fill your day?..?

You are an ignoramus.  Get that in your pipe and smoke it. I will continue to use our local slang because I can.  Ill stop there.
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Wolf_Larson

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Re: Crack or craic?
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2013 »
WOW peeps just had a read at this treat and im glad i dont understand it by the looks of things. Being uneducated has its good points lol
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KyleL

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Crack or craic?
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2013 »

Quote from: Wolf_Larson on June 23, 2013
WOW peeps just had a read at this treat and im glad i dont understand it by the looks of things. Being uneducated has its good points lol

In short, 'Britain' came up with the word 'crack' meaning good fun. The Irish like to spell it 'craic'.

Also no-one cares.
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sjh1

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Re: Crack or craic?
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2013 »
I did not suggest anybody was stupid. I suggested they were ignorant of facts. Not the same thing at all. Admittedly I might well have been wrong and lots of people on here might already have known about the word's origins.

I don't want to be beloved by anybody on here, thanks! I'm trying to have a debate about an issue that interests me and which raised some responses on another thread. I think it was rude of me to hijack that thread and I've apologised for that. I don't mean any personal insult to anybody and I don't have an axe to grind. I am not a language expert but I do have a strong interest in the subject.

I hope everybody does continue to use all our local slang and dialect, I love to hear it. That Concise Ulster Dictionary is a really good reference, all sourced from years of archives at the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum and compiled by Dr. Caroline Macafee. For the wider English-language throughout Ireland A Dictionary of Hiberno-English by Terence Patrick Dolan is very good and has a lot of words we don't use up here (as well as many we do).

Nobody pointed out the mistake in my first post (obviously because nobody is interested). In his dictionary of Ulster-Scots James Fenton actually writes crack as, "crak (-ah-) ... (Also locally creck)". The crak (-ah-) spelling indicates the long 'a' sound in some north Antrim speech, it's usually pronounced more like cra-ak up there.

I very much like the wee cartoon and also the Vic Reeves catchphrase. I'll be saying, "You just wouldn't let it lie!" all day now.

Remember if you're not interested there is no need to read or reply to this thread.
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sjh1

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Re: Crack or craic?
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2013 »
Quote from: Aragorn on June 22, 2013
it was always my belief that a word does not have to originate in a given language to be used as such. Such word appropriation is commonly found in anglicised French words for example. I don't see why words can't be gaelicised, just as they are adopted by other languages.

So - we've established that while you are factually correct on the origin of the word - it still has little bearing on whether or not it can be used in the manner preferred by those on the forum.

To use another phrase locals are quite fond of "Nobody likes a smartarse"

A few further points...

Of course words are borrowed between languages. There are countless examples. However this is a strange case where a word was borrowed into one language then back into the original language in its new form.

People can (and will) spell words whatever way they want on this forum and elsewhere. Indeed 'craic' looks like becoming the accepted English spelling. I just thought that some people might like to know that the old spelling 'crack' is the original historical spelling and thus actually more legitimate. For a start that -ic at the end makes no sense in English, it looks like it should rhyme with lake. Again, maybe most people knew this already and just didn't care ... or they wanted to distinguish between fun, drugs and arses which is very reasonable I suppose!

It was actually 'craicin' that started me off. Possibly this spelling too is on its way to becoming standard English but I hope not.

Re. "Nobody likes a smartarse" that seems such a Norn Iron one. I read somewhere that we're the only place in the world where parents rebuke their children by telling them to, "Stop being smart!" ... Probably used worldwide though to be fair.
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What would the world be, once bereft
Of wet and of wildness? Let them be left,
O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet.

... from 'Inversnaid' by Gerard Manley Hopkins.

Ed

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Re: Crack or craic?
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2013 »
I'd imagine those who poke fun at the NI phrase aren't aware of the difference between being smart and being a smartarse. The former is certainly a desirable trait, but the latter is definitely something to rebuke.
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Wolf_Larson

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Re: Crack or craic?
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2013 »
I hope everybody does continue to use all our local slang and dialect, I love to hear it. That Concise Ulster Dictionary is a really good reference, all sourced from years of archives at the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum and compiled by Dr. Caroline Macafee.

Thats seems a great Dictionary, would love to look and have a laugh at that.  :)
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sjh1

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Re: Crack or craic?
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2013 »
Quote from: Wolf_Larson on June 23, 2013
I hope everybody does continue to use all our local slang and dialect, I love to hear it. That Concise Ulster Dictionary is a really good reference, all sourced from years of archives at the Ulster Folk and Transport Museum and compiled by Dr. Caroline Macafee.

Thats seems a great Dictionary, would love to look and have a laugh at that.  :)

It is very good but a bit academic. For a laugh try the old John Pepper books, used to love them when I was younger.

See here ... http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/products/john+pepper/john+peppers+complete+norn+iron+haunbook/4572284/

I could be wrong but I suspect John Pepper (actually a pseudonym, I can't remember his real name) was the first to write 'Norn Iron' in print. See it so often now online and elsewhere.
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What would the world be, once bereft
Of wet and of wildness? Let them be left,
O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet.

... from 'Inversnaid' by Gerard Manley Hopkins.

Wolf_Larson

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Re: Crack or craic?
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2013 »
Sweet thanks sjh1, i'd like to read that.

many thanks wolf
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FairWeatherCamper

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Re: Crack or craic?
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2013 »
I've weighed in once before on this topic, so this my last time.

I recognise the word "craic".

The word "crack" to me is either a fault/break in a solid object, or some sort of drug.

I've honestly never seen the word crack used instead of craic, so that's the current state of the language for me. I don't read much, now that the kids keep me busy though.

Anyway, happy debating everyone.
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Ed

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Re: Crack or craic?
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2013 »
lol just when you thought the fire was dead, along comes fair weather camper with his jerrican full of unleaded ;-)

I've had my fill of argument lately. Mostly from trolling the handwringers at guardian hq though. Don't see much disagreement here.

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