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[admin]

The throaty roar of the engines was the first thing that alerted us to the presence of the bikes; then we saw them, 10 riders picking their way slowly down the mountainside through the bog.

We were out for a walk in Batt's Estate near Pierce's Castle, a rocky outcrop 465m up in the Mournes near the Leitrim Lodge carpark.

As we watched, the group, which was well equipped and was riding carefully, came up the slope towards us and past hikers on the main path into the mountains.

The bikes were loud and their engines left a lingering smell, but they moved on quickly and silence soon returned to the hills around us.

But though their presence may have been short-lived, the people who farm the mountains and those who work to preserve this environment say this activity is unwanted and damaging.

There are signs up at the entrance to Batt's Estate, a patchwork of private land in the western Mournes, banning the use of quads and scramblers.

But a representative of the farmers who work the land there told me that they were "plagued" with quad and scrambler activity, especially at weekends.

He told me that he had gone to speak to several groups he'd spotted on the mountain. Some, he said, appeared to have no idea that they shouldn't be there, others could be verbally abusive.

"They feel they've as much right to be there as anyone else," he said.

But the reality for the farmers is different.

Firstly, there is the damage some riders cause to walls and gates trying to gain access. Then there is the problem of livestock, especially sheep, being frightened off their grazing grounds.

More here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12860852

[LennyJ1]

If the land is owned by the farmers then fair one, its there land and if they want them off then fine. But if its not their land them scramble away.

[DryBag]

I was on a walk with a group a couple of years ago.  there were a group of quads trekking up somewhere around slieve muck and the walking group was giving off stink about how these reckless quad riders were tearing up and destroying the mountains.

Then the riders came to a collapsed section of the wall and stopped, dismounted and set about fixing it.  then they got back on and moved on to fix the next break.  they weren't destroying the mournes, they were restoring them.

Are bikers scarring the mournes?  undoubtedly.
Are walkers scarring the Mournes? absolutely.
should we all stop enjoying the mournes?  no.

Since the Mourne Heritage trust is spending £160,000 to upgrade routes through the Mournes, those paths should be designed to allow others to enjoy the routes, not just walkers.

.End-Of-Rant.

[whoRya]

If the land is owned by the farmers then fair one, its there land and if they want them off then fine. But if its not their land them scramble away.

Then it probably is the Water Service's land?  I don't really know how the whole permission to walk thing works in the Mournes, but at a guess the permission doesn't extend to scrambling etc.

Ok, I'll happily flout land permissions to walk or camp in the Antrim Hills, but I take a view that 'you'll not even know I was here'.  I wouldn't dream of ripping up their land though which is the consequence of scrambling in the Mournes (whoever owns them).

Then the riders came to a collapsed section of the wall and stopped, dismounted and set about fixing it.  then they got back on and moved on to fix the next break.  they weren't destroying the mournes, they were restoring them.

Are bikers scarring the mournes?  undoubtedly.
Are walkers scarring the Mournes? absolutely.
should we all stop enjoying the mournes?  no.

Since the Mourne Heritage trust is spending £160,000 to upgrade routes through the Mournes, those paths should be designed to allow others to enjoy the routes, not just walkers.

.End-Of-Rant.

Have no problem with use of a quad bike by those repairing walls.  Limited use will have a neglible impact.

Are bikers doing a disproportionate amount of damage?  Undoubtedly.
Is the damage caused by bikers too high 'a cost'? Arguably
Is the damage caused by walkers too high 'a cost'?  No (imo), except for high-use areas which require sustainable plans to be put in place.

There should be areas for this type of activity however I would be opposed to the equivalent of a 'right to roam' policy for scramblers and quads.

[suspectmonkey]

I think that off-road bikes unfairly get a bad reputation as people instantly associate them with youngsters tearing around housing estates on cheap Chinese bikes and racking up ASBO's.  I've met trials riders on the Brandy Pad before and they appeared to be both talented and conscientious.  I think these guys are really limited in the places they can ride, something I can totally empathise with from my own experience mountain biking.  Of course I'm not condoning tearing up private land or terrorising livestock, but it would be unfair if all off-road riders got painted with this brush.  I think there needs to be better provision for different users to be able to make use of our limited open spaces...

[Paul72]

[RedLeader]

This is a really interesting question that is about more than just scramblers.
We want to be able to wild camp in peace, something that has a very dodgy legal status and although I feel that motorbikes do cause more damage (and noise!) than I would like to see, I think the last thing we need is yet more legislation about what we can and can't do. Can't say I have an answer but these days I generally think more laws restricting what we're allowed to do outdoors is the last thing we need.

[Dowser]

This is definately an interesting one.  I bought a scrambler last year thinking I was going to have no end of fun with it but I may as well have bought an Uzi 9mm as it seems it would have been more socially acceptable.

The Scrambler I bought was a Honda 200R which was once road legal and has a road legal silencer on it.  I pick this one intentionally as it is relatively quiet and I didn't think it would cause much trouble or noise pollution if used responsibly. 

Unfortunately though, as soon as you arrive somewhere and begin unloading it from the trailer the dirty looks begin.  Recently I took it down to a beach in Ballywalter, where I have rode bikes all my life, and before I had even taken off the trailer a woman came over to me and actually got very abusive.  She took a photo of my number plate and told me she was going to report me to the police.  I had no choice but to leave as I didn't want any hassle.  She told me that she pays rates and does not expect to be walking on the beach and be disturbed by motorbikes.  I was fuming at the arguements/reasons she gave me but I just had to be polite and move on.

I have yet to find anywhere in Northern Ireland that I can take the bike and use it totally hassle free and because of this I have only taken the bike out about 3 times.

I have to say I would have expected the Mournes to be a total no go area. 

[whoRya]

PM sent Dowser.

[RedLeader]

That was a good example of why the last thing we need is more laws. I'm sick of being gradually corralled closer to home.

The woman on Ballywalter was such a witch. Frothing at the mouth thinking that because she lives within a mile of a beach that it's her entitlement to decide how others should use it. We should have launched her and her mobile into the tide (only joking - don't be throwing middle aged ladies into the sea - I'm pretty sure it's some sort of an offence!)

This is definately an interesting one.  I bought a scrambler last year thinking I was going to have no end of fun with it but I may as well have bought an Uzi 9mm as it seems it would have been more socially acceptable.

The Scrambler I bought was a Honda 200R which was once road legal and has a road legal silencer on it.  I pick this one intentionally as it is relatively quiet and I didn't think it would cause much trouble or noise pollution if used responsibly. 

Unfortunately though, as soon as you arrive somewhere and begin unloading it from the trailer the dirty looks begin.  Recently I took it down to a beach in Ballywalter, where I have rode bikes all my life, and before I had even taken off the trailer a woman came over to me and actually got very abusive.  She took a photo of my number plate and told me she was going to report me to the police.  I had no choice but to leave as I didn't want any hassle.  She told me that she pays rates and does not expect to be walking on the beach and be disturbed by motorbikes.  I was fuming at the arguements/reasons she gave me but I just had to be polite and move on.

I have yet to find anywhere in Northern Ireland that I can take the bike and use it totally hassle free and because of this I have only taken the bike out about 3 times.

I have to say I would have expected the Mournes to be a total no go area. 

[Samm]

This is a very interesting thread that I'm enjoying following. As a habitat ecologist my job and my passion is about protecting our fragile, wonderful habitats for nature (man is also part of nature).

I'm enjoying seeing how people who enjoy the outdoors actually view the outdoors that they enjoy. More of this type of discussion say I!

[LandyLiam]

I've heard some people getting worried about the amount of walkers in the Mournes so if they had their way then you can imagine what chance the bikers would have !  I'm all for everything in moderation, if the odd person takes a scrambler/quad/4x4 up the mournes we'll not notice it, all depends on ground conditions of course, a good dry summers day and very little (if any) damage is done, but if some ejits go spinning wheels across drainage courses on a muddy day then permanent damage could be done. So the question is can we police ourselves? certainley most of us can, but the few will always ruin it for the many.

I'd like to see areas set up in the Mournes & Sperrins where offroad vehicles could do a few miles of rough tracks well out of the way of the walking routes. I love taking the old Land Rover exploring on the old tracks, the rougher the better, but i have to go across the border (Donegal usually, you think our roads are bad !!!) to do it. We have very few (if any) areas in NI where we can drive offroad legally. There are plenty of 4x4 clubs (I can't speak for the bikers though) in NI running excellent events almost every weekend from as little as £10 per vehicle. Bikers will always look bad as they sound aggressive, imagine a silent electric motorbike on the hills, i bet it wouldn't get a fraction of the bad feeling.

So I say something for everyone, and don't abuse it or you'll lose it !

Although, i've read a lot about the closure of many green lanes in GB to vehicles, there is a strong argument that they will lose them all anyway so many say have fun while it lasts. But there are also many doing great work in maintaining lanes to try and ensure vehicles are allowed on them for many years to come.

Sure it'll all change the next ice age anyway 

[suspectmonkey]

As a habitat ecologist my job and my passion is about protecting our fragile, wonderful habitats for nature (man is also part of nature).

That is a very interesting, valid and often overlooked point!

[whoRya]

Sure it'll all change the next ice age anyway 

Is that soon?  Looking forward to seeing what new mountains we get 

[Craigy123]

Its not the same but its a similar subject, and also a grey area as far as legislation goes... You cant really jet ski the whole lower Bann, in fact in Newferry alone you are only supposed to have about 800 meters to play in, now that's not very much for a jet ski. so many of us use most of the bann. Occasionally we are asked to move on but heres the point, if me or anyone i know go past fisher men or canoes or little boats we slow down, quieten down the revs and go past with as little fuss as possible, and then the person we went past is thinking well maybe jet skis aint so bad... but there is always always one or two who ruin it and go ripping past too close and too fast and then everyone gets tarred with the big dirty tar brush. So really and truely its up to the people doing the activity to be responsible. If they make sure they dont do too much damage or ride to hard near people then maybe a co-existence could emerge. I for one wouldnt mind the occasional bike to go past just to change the subject for a few minutes while on a walk...plus i'd love to try it. Loving this topic!!!

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